A Feast for Crows - SFFW OFFICIAL SPOILER DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Fantasy / Horror' started by Rob B, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. Rob B

    Rob B \m/ BEER \m/ Staff Member

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    This is the topic for discussing A Feast for Crows. As the title suggests, this will contain spoilers and indepth details. Enter at your own risk. All other spoiler-discussions of A Feast for Crows will be closed & redirected here.

    again, this topic contains
    SPOILERS
    SO
    ENTER
    AT
    YOUR
    OWN
    RISK!
     
  2. Inkswitch

    Inkswitch Winter is here

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    Well I liked it...

    Any opinions on whether ( ) actually hung? Was the one word a name or can someone think of a snappy one-word way to talk yourself out of that position?
     
  3. Murrin

    Murrin Registered User

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    I can't think of anything, but I can't believe that he'd really to that. If he has, then as I've said elsewhere the whole storyline in Feast was pointless. It has to go somewhere after this. The effort she put into shouting that one word must mean something.

    Okay, so that storyline wouldn't have been entirely pointless - it did tell us what happened to Sandor Clegane. On that subject, did anyone else spot the little trick Martin pulled, and work out what had really happened? Took me a little while (the night after I finished the book), then suddenly hit me.
     
  4. Eventine

    Eventine Uh, Staff Member

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    Spoilers! Although if you're this far I'm guessing you knew that already.






    What trick?

    I can't see how Brienne didn't hang. I figured her one word was "Jaime". Can't really see how anything else would help, although with Martin you never know. That was the only storyline I really found interesting. I felt the Dorne stuff could have been done through characters discussing events there (as they managed to do in the first 3 books).

    Any ideas on who the woman in Jaime's "dream" at the end was?
    Or the man in the prologue/Sam's last chapter? Just a Faceless Man? Or someone else?

    I also liked seeing Cersei ruin herself through bad decisions.

    Overall though, I was a little let down by this book.
     
  5. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    I think whatever word Brienne called out probably made Lady Stoneheart decide to cut her down. Not even Martin is so sadistic to make the reader sit through a whole book of her roaming the country side, battling the Bloody Mummers, only to be hung at the end. We'd probably find a clue as to what the word was in one of the previous books.

    I thought the figure in Jaime's dream was supposed to represent Lady Stoneheart.

    No idea who the alchemist was, but I was waiting the entire book to find out.
     
  6. Starson

    Starson Registered User

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    I live in the US, but couldn't wait for the American version and spent 12 pounds (plus 22 pounds for 1-2 day air) for aFfC from Amazon.UK. After reading it in about 4 days on a trip to D.C., I find my feelings mixed.

    First off, I must say that I approached this book knowing that most of my favorite characters were not going to be in it, thus I probably wasn't going to enjoy it as much I would have otherwise. Reading it with this in mind, I still found it quite boring at times - even tedious, with all the back history of people and places that I haven't heard of previously, which might or might not have anything to do with the plot. I agree with Eventine that much of the Dorne plotline could have been done second-hand with characters that had previous POV's.

    I also have to repeat Eventine's question, "What trick?".

    Also, I think the woman in Jaime's dream might have been his mother, but I might have to go back and read it again. Not sure...

    All in all, I liked it, but nowhere near how much I liked the other 3. I tried for it not to be a letdown, but...
     
  7. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    Negatives out of the way:

    I think a little disappointment is natural after a book is so highly anticipated and the wait is so long. Fans, like me, will be frustrated, but in many ways that’s what fans love about Martin. The main problem is this felt like a transitional book to me, more like A Clash of Kings as opposed to A Storm of Swords. While we follow some interesting character development, nothing really happens to affect the fate of Westeros in this book. I agree with Hobbit that this feels like ‘book three-and-a-half’. Nothing is resolved, which seems to work against Martin’s statements that he want books in this series to stand well on their own.

    But onto the positives, because this is another fabulous book from Martin:

    He is still the best prose-stylist of anyone working in epic fantasy today (that I’ve some across at least) with his elaborately constructed sentences and his dark ironic jabs. No one else can use words like 'jape' or 'buxom' without coming off like a self-parody. It’s sprawling and epic, but also full of immersive and textured detail. Even the supporting characters are beautifully fleshed out. I wish I hadn’t read it so quickly, because you really need time to absorb the world and the story. However, I couldn’t stop myself turning the pages to find out what happens next, as Martin maintains the ability to craft a plot with more spikes and twists than the Iron Throne.

    It was also a very bold move to focus on King’s Landing, Dorne and the Iron Islands, leaving three of the most popular character out of the book pretty much altogether. But, again as Hobbit says, what's here feels right. Of course, this means that now the series will be seven books long, but with quality like Martin, I’m not going to complain.

    Like Eventine, I found Brienne’s storyline the most interesting. She has been one of my favourite characters since the last book, and I enjoyed this book’s focus on her. I was horrified and impressed by what Martin does to her. But the fact that she gets to take her revenge against four or five of the Bloody Mummers is immensely satisfying.

    I was delighted to find that Sansa is no longer the insipid bore she once was. She used to be my least favourite POV character, but I quite enjoyed getting into her headspace in this book, even if she is still an automaton with no free-will nor influence on the story.
     
  8. Eventine

    Eventine Uh, Staff Member

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    So did I at first, but then carefully re-read it and she was blonde. Catelyn had auburn hair (as did Sansa) right? Also, when Brienne meets her doesn't she describe her hair as having gone white?
     
  9. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    Oh okay. Forgot that detail. I remember the clothing they decribed her wearing was similar to what Lady Stoneheart is waering when Briene is brought before her.

    Probably is a relative then - Cersei or their mother, however, I think it was meant to be symbolic rather than actually being somebody, so it could have been a surreal blend of people.
     
  10. Eventine

    Eventine Uh, Staff Member

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    Sorry to bdouble posr. Just one more thing I'd mention that bothered me, and it's because of the afterword more than anything:

    In the book we hear of the death of Davos, and I thought he'd carked it and it was an interesting way of cutting out that POV. In the afterword though, he mentions that we'll see more of Davos.

    Will Dance be chronologically after Feast? If so, he's spoiled a bit for me. If it's concurrent, well, that will at least make things interesting.

    One thing I liked was the news of Dany filtering into Westeros and the various range of reactions, from Cersei's disbelief to the Euron's plan to dominate her dragons.
     
  11. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    A Dance With Dragons will be set at the same time as A Feast For Crows. We will see what those characters are doing while the characters in the book were doing their thang.

    And Davos isn't dead. I'll bet many a golden crown on it.
     
  12. jonsnow

    jonsnow New Member

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    Didn't read any of the spoilers, but I want you to know that I don't like any of you, until I read the book. That is all.
     
  13. Murrin

    Murrin Registered User

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    Concerning Sandor Clegane. If you look back at Brienne's conversation with the Elder Brother, and pay very close attention to what he says...
    Alright, I'll just say it: The Elder Brother says 'the man you are looking for is dead', and 'the Hound is dead', but corrects Brienne when she says 'Sandor Clegane is dead'. He seems far too familiar with Sandor for the brief time they supposedly spent together. I believe him when he says the Hound is dead, but I don't think you'd find the body of Sandor Clegane under that cairn. Tell the truth, I think Sandor was the novice digging graves.
     
  14. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    I didn't interpret it that way. I think what the Elder Brother meant was that Sandor Clegane was dead, but Rorge was still roaming the countryside as The Hound. Therefore The Hound was not dead.

    I'm not so sure what has become of Gregor Clegane at Qyburn's hands in the dungeons.
     
  15. Murrin

    Murrin Registered User

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    He said that the Hound was dead and that Sandor Clegane was at rest.

    As for Gregor, I'm definately eager to see the queen's 'champion', as it is implied that Qyburn has created this thing from what remains of the people Cersei sent to the dungeons... Wonder what Varys would think of a necromancer taking his place?
     
  16. Gildor

    Gildor Gentlemen!!!

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    Well i was dissapointed and content at the end of it all, lots of plus points though especially my new favourite character ...

    S***mouth :D

    'Bugger me with a bloody spear,' he said again, and started laughing too.

    'You heard the man,' Jaime said to Ilyn Payne. ' Find a nice long spear and shove it up his arse. '

    lol, this rivals Shagga and his one liners, hehe!
     
  17. Inkswitch

    Inkswitch Winter is here

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    I thought the same, that he's been 'reborn' as a monk or novice or whatever. Luckily those religious types can join the militant orders now so *hopefully* we'll get to see more of 'Brother Sandor' with sword in hand.. (and soul at rest, at least until he finds out about his bro being potentially 'reborn' as well)
     
  18. Eventine

    Eventine Uh, Staff Member

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    Wow, didn't pick up on the Hound thing. I might have a re-read of that bit. It could make sense if Elder Brother is this supposed super healer as well.

    And yes, I believe we may see "Mountainstein" emerging from the dungeon's at some stage :D I wondered if it really was his head they sent south, or just someone else with a large skull (such as one of the many dwarf heads bought to Cersei)? It seems strange to spend 3 novels discussing the strength of the Clegane brothers only to have them both die offfscreen. Very undramatic for a soap opera.

    I woke up in the middle of the night thinking of a word that may have caused them to cut down Brienne as well: Arya.
     
  19. Luke_B

    Luke_B Diamond Dog

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    Sorry, that's not what you said in your original post so I had to go an reread it for myself. I think you're right. Well-spotted!

    It's at page 469-470. The Elder Brother says, "The man you seek is dead." [He died by the sword, the same way he lived.]

    Then later he says, "The Hound died there, in my arms"

    Brienne says, "Sandor Clegane is dead."

    The Elder Brother corrects her, "He is at rest."

    This leaves us wondering, how did the Elder Brother know Sandor had Arya with him? Did he tell him this while he was dying? Maybe not.

    And how did the Elder Brother know that Sandor wished to kill his brother? Has Sandor been healed and confessing his sins to the Elder Brother.

    I'm wondering what else I've missed by tearing through the pages so quickly.
     
  20. Murrin

    Murrin Registered User

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    Thing is, when I read it I knew there was something fishy going on, but couldn't work out what - it was the day after I finished, when I went through the scene again in my head, that it occured to me.

    Inkswitch: It'd be interesting to see Sandor resurface later, but I think I'd be just as satisfied knowing that he was at peace. If he's truly left all that behind him (and what the Elder Brother says suggests that he has), then his story is essentially finished. If, however, he is still troubled, then there's potential for more of him in later books - it's all up to what Martin thinks of the Hound's death, really.
    And of course, his soldiering days are over in any case, if I was right about his identity - the grave digger was half lame.

    Eventine: I wondered about the skull as well - something Cersei thought I think? I can't quite remember.
    Edit - Ah, it was Qyburn: "I'm sorry that it took so long. Such a large head. It took the beetles many hours to clean the flesh." Not as suspicious as I'd remembered it, but the time Qyburn took over it could be suggestive of some deception.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2005