First-time Reader's Journey - Malazan Book of the Fallen

Discussion in 'Fantasy / Horror' started by chris777, May 20, 2011.

  1. Ozziespur

    Ozziespur Avaricious Aussie

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    I have just finished GOTM and will read Deadhouse Gates. For me GOTM was an ok read I have enjoyed other titles/authors far more but I'll read the next as popular opinion is it gets better. From there we will see.

    As a side note, I didn't really understand Paran's short relationship with Tattersail and where his intense passion for vengence comes from. I thought that 'connection' was hastily & quite frankly (in my opinion) badly written.
     
  2. Michigan

    Michigan Registered User

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    That was probably my biggest complaint with GOTM and I agree completely. Another side note, may want to spoiler tag that just to be safe since the OP is after all reading it for the first time.
    Does this site have black box spoiler tags? I can't seem to find it.
     
  3. kater

    kater Filthy Assistants!

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    [s p o i l e r]Text here[/s p o i l e r] without the spaces between letters
     
  4. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    Yes please spoiler anything I don't specifically ask about or that I haven't read yet. I'm hoping anyways, that he saw I just posted about Sorry killing the bouncer, and knew that was after Paran had found Tattersail's lifeless body. But, I agree w/the odd connection, but isn't that how she described it. An odd connection she felt with him. I just marked it down as another mystery that may be explained later.
     
  5. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    So. I don't read many poems. So far I've read all of these and i'm on chapter 18. Maybe I don't have that artsy side. I don't like poems anyways. But these are some of the worst "poems" I've ever read. To me it just sounds like an ambiguous sentence with big words, split up every now and then, with no rhyme(literally) or reason.
     
  6. Ozziespur

    Ozziespur Avaricious Aussie

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    I did take intoconsideration the point you were at in the story. I would never give away any book details as I detest that myself. :p
     
  7. megaphage

    megaphage Registered Uber

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    Some of the poems are good. Even if you don't get what they're about they can help to set the tone and offer an eerie feel for the atmosphere and history. After the first few I stopped trying to pull any meaningful insight out of them and just treated them as interesting asides.

    I always think authors are setting themselves a bit of a challenge by writing little poignant snippets and poems at the start of chapters. Unless they are geniuses they will always be a bit hit and miss. Erikson's are more consistent and relevant than most though.
     
  8. Michigan

    Michigan Registered User

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    Yeah I just read them quick in case there is anything important then move on. Of course I do that with poems in any book.
     
  9. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    About to start Book Two.

    GoM didn't really come into it's own until it seemed they were ready to attack Djuristan(sp). Then once the Tyrant was released the book got really good I thought. Not sure how big of a fan I am of how it ended, but it's a huge series so the ending of each book isn't THAT important. Really the only thing they left you to keep on reading is: What will Rallik turn out to be? And what's up with this Seer? Is he powerful enough to fight against Brood and Rake? Is anyone? geez.

    Which brings me to one of my points, which I said after the first few pages. They are still using the words "Ascendants" and "Gods" interchangeably. In the text I read. Rake, Brood, The Rope, Shadowthrone, any many others were listed as Ascendants. Rake can obviously challenge any one of the Gods. And as powerful as Raest was, they said it would be an even fight once he got his finnest. Tells me the awesome power Rake has. And that is either a plot hole, or Rake is really modest. As he says there are many of his people who could challenge him. Somewhere it said his head Mage/Assassin was his 2nd or almost as powerful as he. ?? She got beat up by Vorcan, who was knocked out by a brick! Either way.... Raest fought off, how many, 5 dragons? With out his Finnest. And you're telling me he would only be a match for Rake WITH IT? And that Mage Assassin that was getting beat up all book could challenge Rake? I'm really confused. I HAVE to side with Rake is just modest. Maybe Brood really could challenge him. But I can see nobody else in this world besides an Ascendant or God that could.

    I just saw a Malazan Power Ranking thread. Can't wait until I have read enough to check that out.
     
  10. Arinth

    Arinth Registered User

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    yeah, you'll find yourself going in circles alot when trying to figure out who is the most powerful.

    Is Tayschreen the most powerful sorcerer or Quick Ben, or Rake or Kruppe etc
     
  11. Tragedy

    Tragedy Registered User

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    The hardest part is done. DG is much more accessible and much, much, much more interesting IMO. And the absolute best part - it has a plot!!!!!

    You could argue that Gardens had some sort of story going on, but to me it seemed like convuluted worldbuilding with a whole bunch of "who gives a crap" events going on. But DG is somewhat the opposite, its more focused on the story and less on the worldbuilding.

    Sure, there are sinkholes where you become overwhelmed with info and you just want to cry, but the story is damn good. Also, it has one of the best endings I have ever read (in and out of fantasy).

    Enjoy friend!
     
  12. Arinth

    Arinth Registered User

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    I'd definitely like to hear people's thoughts on DeadHouse Gates

    -Chain of Dogs with Duiker

    -Felisin, Heboric and Baudin

    -Icarium and Mappo

    -Fiddler and company

    very nicely done
     
  13. Arinth

    Arinth Registered User

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    just curious too.

    after reading the book and looking back which parts did you guys enjoy most?

    For me it had to be the rooftop battles with the assassins

    and the demon that is unleashed to fight Rake
     
  14. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    I assume you are now talking about GoM? Rake vs Galayn the Demon Lord was definitely the most action packed fight scene. I enjoyed the imagery of Tayschren vs Rake. Him looking up throwing magic vs Rake firing down. I also really liked how the Crimson Guard stepped in several times and showed, basically, they are really badass. =)

    I find the vast power explinations confusing at times. As I mentioned before, with Rake how powerful is he really? And this Raest was a God. Fought 5 dragons, and would have killed them. But didn't they say this Demon Lord was stronger than Raest? Yet, this Demon Lord wasn't powerful enough to track how fast Adjunt Lorn is? But then she got her butt whooped by a Crimson Guard member who wasn't using any type of power, just pure skill? Confusing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  15. thirstyVan

    thirstyVan the Thirsty

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    I just finished GotM today, after several attempts. And I still don't really know what the heck happened. What was the Jaghut Tyrant? Who was Brood (a warlord but was he ever actually in the book?)? Double question marks?! Madness!

    I really had a hard time getting into this book. After several attempts at reading it I finally got an audio copy and powered through it. So part of my confusion may be a result of missing chunks when my attention wandered. I dunno. It really threw new characters and settings at the reader way to fast, IMO. It was hard to keep track of, and each new character that was introduced was quickly left behind, without any real time to get to know them. And then they popped back up a hundred pages later and I couldn't remember who they were or why I was supposed to care about them. There's something to be said for a nice slow intro to an alt world.

    But, that said, all the good stuff I've heard about the next books has got me a little hyped. Starting Deadhouse Gates soon.

    How are you doing on it, Chris?
     
  16. Tragedy

    Tragedy Registered User

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    Van, you felt the same why I did. In retrospect after reading DG, I absolute hate GotM but when I actually finished reading it, it was more a relief than anything else.

    Deadhouse Gates is fantastic. Yes there are parts where you are thinking "What is going on?" but alot of it follows the plot without swaying too much. There still will be a lot you dont understand, but soldier on right to the end, its worth it.
     
  17. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    In one of the Crow's POV sections Brood is there. Talks quite a bit. But after that is only ever just mentioned.

    I have been slacking. I'm 1/3 through book 2. It's hard to, AGAIN, push through mountains of world building. Things are just now starting to happen. Though I am glad we are getting a lot of ICARIUM! Who thinks Icarium, The Hulk, and Logen NineFingers are very much the same? Almost the same exact affliction. Just exaggerated a little differently.

    Since some people haven't finished or started DG yet I'm going to ask this in a spoiler.
    I am very confused about the Shadow Warren. Aren't these Warrens really old? When Rake spoke to Shadow Throne he acted like he has been a god for a long time and wondered why he was poking his head in mortal business. When people talked about him and his Warren...they talked like it's been around forever. Then now we find out that Shadowthrone is the Emperor? And Cottilion/The Rope is Dancer? When you Ascend do you take someone's place? Cause "The Rope" and "ShadowThrone" are names that seem to be legend. Gods talked about for thousands of years. Not some newly Ascended persons who just showed up. Am I wrong?
    I like it so far though!
     
  18. Raven of SD

    Raven of SD Registered User

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    I just started book 4 but so far a general theme of the series seems to be checks and balances of power. Pretty much all of the truly powerful beings I've read about so far have learned to work behind the scenes. The ones who blatantly display their powers are usually dealt with.
     
  19. kater

    kater Filthy Assistants!

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    chris777

    The Warrens are old, Shadowthrone and Cotillion I always understood to be essentially God roles currently inhabited by Ammanas and Dancer, Shadow has a unique history with the warrens that you will learn about if you continue with the series. As for the Rake conversation, he does but inaccuracies like that in GotM I tend to ignore because of the time taken between writing the first and second books. Fwiw
     
  20. chris777

    chris777 Registered User

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    I'm not going to spoiler my text anymore. I am finished with Book 1 and moving on to Book 2. If you have yet to read Deadhouse Gates do not read any more of this thread until you have done so(unless you don't care about spoilers). Right now I am only about 40% into DG.

    Here's another thing that just struck me! Paran is a normal mortal. He spoke with Wiskeyjack or Dujek? in the prologue. He was a boy then, he is now a man. Let's say 20years. At that time the Emperor and Dancer were alive. Tattersail and Tayschren were still practicing their arts correct? And she is a master of this Deck Reading magic. Shadowthrone and TheRope are cards in this deck that is supposed to have been around for centuries. Tattersail is I believe 300years old. So how could Shadowthrone and TheRope only exist for less than 20years, yet this deck exist? Do the cards change themselves? I believe it was called "The Deck of Dragons"? If Oponn dies, and a new Ascendant emerges, would this Deck update itself? That is the only explanation I can think of. Then again, don't the bridge burners play normal card games w/it? Sot it can be just a normal deck of cards? Confusing.

    And just because Book 2 was written years after Book 1 is not an adequate reason to disregard plot holes. Was ShadowThrone being The Emperor not always the plan? Or something he threw in at the last second, hoping we would dismiss these inaccuracies as just confusing facts?

    Then again, it could have been the plan and I'm just not piecing it together appropriately. ? =)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011