Is it just me? - Wheel of Time

Discussion in 'Fantasy / Horror' started by koolness123, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. koolness123

    koolness123 New Member

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    Well, I decided the other day that I couldn't call myself a fantasy fan without reading WoT, so I went to Barnes and Nobles and pick up a copy of The Eye of the World. I'm about 400 pages into it, and so far I see soooooo many things that are similar to Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. I'll list a few of my observed similarities, probably tons more I can't think of:

    Spoiler alert (probably redundant, as I'm only 400 pages into the series haha)
    1) The protagonist (I think he is the protagonist anyways), Rand, is a boy from a small village in the woods..... Very similar to Richard the wood guide.
    2) Rand's father isn't really his father..... Same goes for Richard.
    3) People are born with magic in WoT..... Same goes for Sword of Truth series.
    4) Those born with magic will die unless they are properly trained.... Same goes for Sword of Truth series.
    5) Both Rand and Richard were born with magic, and Rand will probably deny it in the same way Richard did. (I haven't read anywhere yet that Rand was born with the one power, but the signs are clear.... I might be completely wrong here haha but that's the way I'm predicting it will be)
    6) Also they both use a form of concentration (Richard pulling the image to himself and Rand with the flame and void), which I think Richard's father taught him but I'm not sure.
    7) Both of the protagonists lived in secluded areas and everything in the book is brand new to them.
    8) Both Rand and Richard have light grey eyes.

    Thos are a few of the things that I think are major similarities, and there are many other minor similarities that I won't list. Anyways, a few of these may be the same for alot of fantasy novels, but I thought the two series seem very similar so far.

    A bit off topic, I just wanted to say that so far I'm pretty pleased with WoT and will probably finish the series happily. But god damn, I hate the women in this book more than I've hated any character since Felisin from MBoTF.... Anyone else feel the same way?
     
  2. clockwirk

    clockwirk the enchanter

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    It's not just you. Prepare to find similarities with Dune, Tolkien, and Star Wars, to name a few.
     
  3. Gareth Bryne

    Gareth Bryne New Member

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    I'm not sure if you're saying this or not, but your post kind of reads like you are implying that Jordan copied ideas from Goodkind. If I'm not mistaken the eye of the world was released earlier than Wizards first rule. You might not be implying that at all though...so if you're not I guess you can ignore this part of my post.

    And yes, there are certainly similarities to other books as well. I'm still waiting for a truly all original fantasy book in this day and age though :)
     
  4. Michigan

    Michigan Registered User

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    I think most of your similarities you pointed out are a stretch at best. Sure they are similar but that's like saying they both have two eyes and a nose. They are rather generic staples of epic fantasy so no surprise they are similar. However, as you continue to read there are many ideas that Goodkind flat out stole from Jordan. Except Goodkind isn't a good enough writer to insert the ideas as seamlessly as Jordan did. Not that Jordan is a perfect writer either.
     
  5. Michigan

    Michigan Registered User

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    Good luck. Millions have probably read the first book with stars in their eyes and by book 7 or 8 were giving up in disgust. I'm determined to finish it someday, i'll pick it up again when Sanderson finishes it, but I had to give up when it started going nowhere.

    And yes, everybody hates the girls in WOT.
     
  6. ChrisW

    ChrisW Banned

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    Hyperbole Alert!!!!
     
  7. Whiskeyjack

    Whiskeyjack sapper-in-chief

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    Actually, I kind of grew fond of the Felisin character toward the end and...
    ...was sad to see her die at the hand of her own sister in House of Chains.
    But I agree about the WOT women. They started to get a little irritating and drawn out over time. As for the WOT series itself, I ran out of steam after book 5. Right now I'm about halfway through book six, but am only reading 1-2 chapters every 6 months or so. I just can't seem to rediscover that special spark the series held for me when I first started reading it. And from what all I've heard, the series keeps going downhill from there, such that I have little interest in trying to see it through to its conclusion. Given so many other good books in the genre, I don't know about WOT anymore.
     
  8. Fred Gallney

    Fred Gallney The Writer of Fantasy

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    The Eye of the World in my opinion was an utter masterpiece. Unfortunately it was the only book in the Wheel of Time series to be thus. However, The Great Hunt, and The Shadow Rising were also reasonably good as I see it. Overall the series is exceptional for some other worldly reason - but thats just me. :)
     
  9. KatG

    KatG Effulgent Staff Member

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    I don't. I think the women in Wheel of Time are very complexly drawn and provide some of my favorite characters of the series, though I could probably do without some of the more minor, bickering Aes Sedai characters, especially in those later books. The gals tend to be more interesting than the guys in Wheel of Time, whose character transformations/development tends to be slower and less layered, except for Rand and a few others. Jordan gets a bit one-note with the guys. It's one of my complaints about him, along with often not making effective use of his enormous cast of minor characters despite narrative time on them, and spending too much time describing armor and heraldry. (Martin does that too, and quite a few other authors -- drives me crazy.)
     
  10. Werthead

    Werthead Registered User

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    The first six books of Wheel of Time were written before TG published his first novel so it should be the other way around ;)

    I don't 'hate' them, and in fact Nynaeve and Egwene develop satisfactorily as the series progresses. However, Robert Jordan seems to think that adults continue to relate to members of the opposite sex the same way they did when they were about 14 (being generous). He has some very peculiar views on the way men and women interact with one another which gets a bit grating after a while.
     
  11. goldhawk

    goldhawk aurea plectro

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    I disagree completely; the Eye of the World is bad and the rest are worst.

    It starts with Rand going to the White Tower to determine if he is the Chosen One. Partly through, Jordan goes off on a tangent and Rand discovers the Eye of the World. Since then, the story never gets back on track.
     
  12. Althax

    Althax Registered User

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    That pretty much nails it. Everyone grows and matures through the series except when it comes to dealing with members of the opposite gender. It's not just the women, the men in the book can be fine one minute but the second someone in a skirt (or Min's pants) comes near them they start getting paranoid and stupid.
     
  13. MadPiper

    MadPiper New Member

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    If anything, Goodkind read Jordans series and decided to remake it as his own, just with rape scenes. I enjoyed Jordan's Wot series, although I think books 9,10,11 should have had all the unnecessary stuff cut and made into one book. I enjoyed the first three books of Goodkinds series. The rest was kinda a bonus, but not really needed. Although a few books had their moments.

    My two zeni. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Werthead

    Werthead Registered User

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    If Rand had gone to the White Tower, the story would have come to a screeching halt there and then. The 'tangent' was necessary.
     
  15. koolness123

    koolness123 New Member

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    Well, I didn't know that The Sword of Truth was published later, but to be honest that seemed irrelevant to me haha. Well, I just finished the book and it was really good to say the least. For all the complaints I've heard about to book I think most people don't give it the credit it deserves. Anyways, I already bought the entire series (with the exception of the last one of course) after finishing the first book, so I have no choice now but to read it (so I tell myself....).

    As for the replies about TG taking ideas from WOT and adding rape scenes, that pretty much hits it dead on the spot ahha. I've read The Sword of Truth to Soul of the Fire, but I always get fantasy ADD and start a new series in the middle of others so I haven't had a chance to finish it. For all the complaints I see on this forum, I loved that series.

    Thanks for the replies, I'm just getting ready to start The Great Hunt. Cheers :D
     
  16. ChrisW

    ChrisW Banned

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    I didn't mind the simlarities SoT had to WoT myself. It was the goat that really got my goat.;)
     
  17. Bond

    Bond Registered User

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    Going by your reaction to the first book I think it is a good bet you are going to enjoy the rest of the series. I've always thought of tEotW as one of the weaker WoT books. Do give your impressions of tGH and the next couple of books when you finish them.
     
  18. KatG

    KatG Effulgent Staff Member

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    No, I liked Eye of the World. The only one I've had objections to in that series is Crossroads of Twilight, which IMO was a mess and should have had a lot more editorial help to at least make it shorter. The book is horribly repetitive, with different groups having the exact same conversations. Of course, maybe that was the effect Jordan was going for. I have some quibbles about material in a few of the other titles, but overall, the series is very strong for me, and the book after Crossroads, Jordan's last, was quite good, I thought and moved forward more effectively.

    I don't find the women irritating or wearying, and that may be partly because I'm a female reader. Jordan does a lot with female anger and the ways women navigate relations with each other, and he spends time on his female characters, so that's a lot of female anger over the course of the series. As for his three male leads and a few of the other younger male characters, what's interesting is that they had really very little knowledge and experience -- they were about to enter adulthood, get married, have kids, and then are thrust into a war where they have no time to learn that part of life really at all (unlike usual soldiers.) The three leads have older, more experienced entities stuck in their heads, but it's not much help to them on the personal side. So for me, their ineptness with women makes a lot of sense, especially as the events of the series occur only over the course of a few years. While we readers get to see inside the women's heads and know what they are thinking and feeling, the guys can't, and it is not an uncommon complaint that women are a mystery, yes? :)

    Rand particularly has the character trait of deep anguish over any woman he cares for and is responsible for being hurt, even if they are warriors or powerful, as the women around him are, and the loss of these women are for him always a strong blow. This trait generally makes me like the dude and care a fig over whether he goes stark raving bonkers or not. This is not something you have to have in every series, but it definitely fits for what Jordan is trying to do.

    The three gals going through the Adept gate and what they face there -- the different lives they might have -- is, for me, really the central image of the series, and what Jordan is doing with all major characters. All of them have their world and lives abruptly changed and they have to struggle to figure out who they are going to be and what roles they will play, dancing between destiny and free will, between one moral choice and another that aren't clear cut. The main theme in Jordan's series is the notion of identity -- who am I, what am I supposed to be, which way do I go when the person I thought I would be is no longer an option? If you look at some of the characters like Perrin, Nynaeve and Egwene, they go through not one transformation, but several. The Aiel go through it and it destroys their culture and splits their people. Even the Forsaken have to deal with that identity question, which is funky.
     
  19. Evil Agent

    Evil Agent Saturn Comes Back Around

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    To the original poster:

    I, too, read Goodkind's books before discovering Jordan (8 years ago now), and was also shocked at the similarities. Especially between the "Sisters of the Light" and the Aes Sedai. It's pretty obvious that Goodkind shamelessly "borrowed" ideas (despite Goodkind's HILARIOUS claim to have never read any other fantasy authors. LOL!).

    Anyways, that's great that you're enjoying the first book of the WoT. It's a great series. But don't be too quick to decide that you'll enjoy the entire thing. Just in case you are unaware, the later books are rather heavily criticized for being incredibly slow moving, full of unecessary subplots, even boring!
     
  20. MadPiper

    MadPiper New Member

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    Well, do remember, generally in forums you do not often hear positive things. The most selfish unforgiving creature in the world, is readers. They whine and complain about every little tidbit they find in books they read, most of which are rarely more then personal opinions then actual fact. (this includes me)

    My point is do no take anything said on this forum or any other to heart. The only opinion that really matters, is your own. You bought the whole series, good for you I say. If it was as bad as some people made it out to be, it would not have been on the best seller list multi-able times and he would not have been as successful as he was. Hopefully by the time you reach book 11, Brandon Sanderson will be close to finishing book finale 12. I myself will probably reread the series when it comes out. ;)