The Stupid Question Thread-GRRM [Spoilers]

Discussion in 'Fantasy / Horror' started by kged, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. hyperchord24

    hyperchord24 Registered User

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    Okay, here's a stupid question. I've got 75 pages left of Game of Thrones (so I guess spoiler alert) and I've just read the part where they kill Eddard Stark. I am flaberghasted. I know I heard how that's what GRRM does, but I considered ES the main character. I know, all the Starks, and Tyrion are "main characters," but in my head, ES was it. I don't know if I can finish the series knowing that he's not living. Anyway, I posted here to ask, did he really just kill off Eddard Stark? Is that a good enough excuse to not finish the series? Couple that with the spoilers I've accidently read about Catelyn, Robb and Joffrey dying, I'm not so sure I can finish the book. I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a happy ending. Yikes!
     
  2. Gary XI

    Gary XI Reader of Words

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    My advice is to finish the book and if you don't want to pick up the next you'll be in the extreme minority
     
  3. Luya Sevrein

    Luya Sevrein Humble Grifter

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    ES is a main character in book one, and then others take over. He becomes a stand-point for the world around him beggining to lose all honor and structure and so on and so forth. He is brought up a lot in loving memory and I have a feeling his death means something.
     
  4. kidsan

    kidsan Registered User

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    I cant even imagine what a happy ending could be for this series! (if we even get there...but let's not get started on that)
     
  5. hyperchord24

    hyperchord24 Registered User

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    So did anyone else feel cheated that he killed off Eddard?
     
  6. Orbison

    Orbison Making it so.

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    Surprised? Yes. Cheated? No. It was, forgive the pun, a stark reminder that no-one's invincible, not even main characters.
     
  7. Lordwalker

    Lordwalker Registered User

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    Killing off Eddard Stark was the clincher for me. I was thinking he probably wasn't reaaaally dead, but I thought wrong. All in all it was/is a pretty bold move for a story and I like that someone was willing to break free of the standard. I don't have a problem with a story that doesn't have a happy ending. In fact, I occasionally prefer them.
     
  8. Lfex

    Lfex Registered User

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    I still can't see why people were surprised with Eddard Stark's death. I mean, it was really predictable. He was a mentor character, like Leto Atreides or Obi-wan Kenobi, and such characters usually die in the first installment.
     
  9. Orbison

    Orbison Making it so.

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    And then you can argue they don't usually die, but those you listed were merely exceptions. The list of "mentor characters" that don't die is infinitely larger than the list of those that do. Furthermore, I'd hesitate to call Eddard Stark a "mentor character". He was paternal, yes, but not a mentor.
     
  10. Luya Sevrein

    Luya Sevrein Humble Grifter

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    Perhaps in a less literal sense. He is responsible for Jon's styles of rule and honor-before-anything attitudes, as well as his regrets with Ygrite and so on and so fourth. He is responsible for Robb's battle tactics and attitude which were going well - the guy fell to his honour and reliance on the rules. He was a heroic figure to Sansa, giving her all she needed to believe that the Knights in her tales were all honorable, loving men like her Father. Arya remembers him and things he says to her and his Gods and practises frequently, as does Bran. He has an effect on Cat and Benjen too I'm sure, and even people who hated him.

    Aside from that he also has a more metaphorical mentoring side. As I said before, the honour and structure seemed to drain from Westeros as he died. Certainly from the Court.
     
  11. hyperchord24

    hyperchord24 Registered User

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    So I just finished AGoT. Awesome, just awesome. It sucks that he killed Eddard off, but I'm getting over it. Anyway, on to the questions:

    On the second to last Daenerys chapter, I'm a little confused. Drogo could not ride, so most of his khal wanted to abandon him, or at the very least kill the Maegi who did this. That was who Ser Jorah was fighting while the Maegi was in the tent performing the ritual. In the aftermath, his bloodriders stayed with Daenerys while others fled, right? Now, on to Daenerys. She miscarried, right? Now all that talk by Ser Jorah about giving birth to a dragon, did I read right? Her son was a dragon? Also, the Maegi made her miscarry on purpose, right? That's what I read. I'm not too sure. Thanks for the help.
     
  12. Werthead

    Werthead Registered User

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    Yes. The Maegi made her miscarry, sacrificing her son to save Drogo (life for life), though killing the prophecised leader who'd unite the Dothraki and conquer the world was probably enticing to her as well (this is also GRRM's way of telling us that prophecies are not set and can be undone in his world).

    We also don't know exactly what happened to Dany's baby (aside from the fact it's dead, though crackpot 'the baby survived and is still around!' theories have cropped up from time to time). The Maegi said all kinds of freaky things but IIRC that was just to upset Dany. She didn't literally give birth to a dragon.
     
  13. OberynMartell

    OberynMartell Registered User

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    Werthead answered everything else, but no, Drogo's Bloodriders didn't stay. Jorah had to kill them, or they would have killed Dany and the Maegi for what the Maegi did to Drogo, and for practicing taboo Bloodmagic.

    Dany's young bodyguards became her new Bloodriders, but not until after she hatched the Dragons,
     
  14. Luya Sevrein

    Luya Sevrein Humble Grifter

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    I'm sure it said the baby was disfigured in some way, giving it the look of a lizard. Or did Miri just say that to upset Dany?

    I thought the Bloodriders wanted to take Dany to Vaes Dothrak but she didn't want too?
     
  15. Werthead

    Werthead Registered User

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    Yeah, Mirri just said that to scare Dany. Drogo's bloodriders (Qotho and that lot) wanted to take her to Vaes Dothrak, but Dany evaded them, whilst her bloodriders (Jhogo and co.) swore loyalty to her.

    Drogo's bloodriders who are now khals in their own right are still out there, btw, and still keen to see her returned to Vaes Dothrak. And Meereen is not far from Lhazar where Drogo died...
     
  16. Luya Sevrein

    Luya Sevrein Humble Grifter

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    Surely she has the moral highground in terms of honour? Cause sure, she isn't going to the widower's place, but they were meant to kill themselves when Drogo dies and after they escorted her, right? So, to me, they seem kind've like they've skirted their duty. xD
     
  17. hyperchord24

    hyperchord24 Registered User

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    I'm finishing up Storm of Swords and I'm reading how Tyrion and Jaime independently figure out that Joffery sent the assasin to kill Bran. Why? I'm still not sure about it. But then, maybe it's not supposed to make sense because Joffery is an idiot. Am I missing something?
     
  18. End Of Disc One

    End Of Disc One Registered User

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    He did it because he overheard drunken Robert saying how they put out crippled animals, but humans are too weak to do it to their own kind. Joff wanted his father's approval.

    If you're asking why Jaime and Tyrion figured out around the same time, I don't remember.
     
  19. kged

    kged Gloriam Imperator

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    Could someone kindly remind me why Jeor Mormont took the Black? And am I right in assuming that he did so before Jorah lost the Lordship of Bear Island, which - given that Jeor couldn't then go back and reassume that position, being bound by his vow as a brother of the Night's Watch - makes Jorah's disgrace all the worse?
     
  20. KatG

    KatG The Bony Hand of Death Staff Member

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    Well, we don't entirely know why he did it. He did so before Jorah's disgrace and around the time of the war that put Robert on the throne. He gave up Bear Island to Jorah and went to the Wall, where as a Lord of the North, he ended up as Lord Commander of the Watch. He may have done so for much the same reason that Aemon stayed a Maester and went to the Wall instead of being King -- to avoid trouble for his son with the new ruler by giving his son a clean slate as lord. But then Jorah remarried, sold slaves to get money for the new wife and mucked it up anyway. The lords of the North, having to deal with wildings and such, still look on the Night Watch as a tradition and honorable calling, and it's their sons who usually end up in the leadership positions, though the Watch is more equalitarian than most places in Westeros.