Wise Mans Fear March 1st [SPOILERS!!]

Discussion in 'Fantasy / Horror' started by teahupoo, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    We might as well agree to disagree. I am sure we could both produce plenty of examples to lend weight to our positions but it would be pointless. They are both good writers might as well leave it at that.
     
  2. Lordwalker

    Lordwalker Registered User

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    I know I will regret posting this, but, Sanderson isn't even in the same league as Rothfuss or Martin. He is a very good and quick writer, I just can't say Ive been blown away by any of his books I've read. Just my opinion, not meaning to knock anyone's favorite authors.
     
  3. pat5150

    pat5150 Staff

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    You can read my spoiler-free review of The Wise Man's Fear here.

    Keep in mind that I do elaborate on various facets of the novel. So if you want to go into this one totally fresh, you might want to skip it...

    Cheers,

    Patrick
     
  4. MattNY

    MattNY Registered User

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    Ha, great write up Pat. That is the first review I have read of yours (I very rarely read reviews for my entertainment options), but it is obvious you put a lot of time and thought into it (and if you didn't, I guess you're just that damn good).
     
  5. pat5150

    pat5150 Staff

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    Thanks, Matt, but I'll have to take that compliment with a grain of salt. Indeed, according to some, I'm about the worst thing the internet has to offer!:p

    But I know Pat, I know his editor, and we share an agent. So it was important to be sort of thorough, without giving anything away. Especially since this was the first full review of TWMF.

    Cheers,

    Patrick
     
  6. MattNY

    MattNY Registered User

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    Well, I bookmarked your site and plan on checking it out more in depth.

    As for WMF, despite Pat's review speaking directly to me when he said 'if you weren't thrilled by Rothfuss' debut, then I believe you need not bother with the second volume', I am strongly considering picking this book up. I did enjoy Rothfuss' writing, even if I was less than thrilled with the story itself.

    Plus, WMF is a huge release for the fantasy genre, and it is a series I am actually up to speed on (very hard, I know, with only one book released thus far). And I don't mind giving money to Rothfuss and those that are publishing his work, so even if I don't enjoy it as much as others, at least I am not supporting some ass.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  7. Heather Myst

    Heather Myst Chocolate.....Count Me In

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    I'm doing a second reading of The Name of the Wind to get ready for Wise Man's Fear and I think I am enjoying the book more this time than in my initial reading. This is really going to be fun to see where Patrick takes us next.
     
  8. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    Excellent review Pat. Extremely well done.

    I don't agree with the issues you presented as being problematic as most of those issues you discussed were basically the same ones present in your opinion in NOTW and I did not see any of those issues as being problematic. All I can say is that if you are saying fans who liked the first book will love the second, and with the first book receiving critical acclaim, I find it hard to see how you can then mainly pick at the faults in the book and give it only an 8. Granted an 8 out of 10 is far from a bad score just found it a bit surprising it wasn't a bit higher. I suppose there are two main camps with Rothfuss. Those that think he is as good as anyone in the genre ala Elizabeth Wollheim (whose assessment I completely agree with) and those that think he is merely another good fantasy author. So much comes down to preference as you gave Erikson's Memories of Ice a 10/10 where I found it to be merely another foray into the study of cultural anthropology mixed in with comic book like characters and thin plot lines.

    Personal opinion aside the review was superbly written just as your Bakker review was.

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  9. Mithfânion

    Mithfânion Lord of the Wild Hunt

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    Nicely put, and seconded.

    Having said that, I do think that if you're looking at another 400 pages of Kvothe at University at the start of the book, I see that as a disappointment. I suspect Rothfuss is really padding this out beyond the point of it still being engaging.

    I mentioned elsewhere that Rothfuss was inspired by or loved the Earthsea trilogy by Le Guin, which tells a similar story. That trilogy is a mere 470 pages in paperback, whereas this one is 1,600 pages in hardcover, two books into a trilogy. That says a lot about how epic fantasy publishing has changed, but it also says a lot about Rothfuss being the absolute opposite of brevity.

    Many of us will soak the book up of course, but I suspect there is going to be a good deal of tedium at the start there, if we are talking about 400 pages of introduction and re-acquainting.
     
  10. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    Thanks Mith :)

    I think it will depend on what is in those first 400 pages. The university years seem to be extremely vital to the development of Kvothe and you figure the point where Rothfuss ended the NOTW you would expect the beginning of the book would pick right back up there. Plus with the book being so large there is plenty of time for the plot to develop.

    I guess it really depends on the expectation one has for this book. With Rothfuss I enjoy the detail and prose so much that I do not mind slow plot development. Reminds me quite a bit of Williams MS&T. I didn't mind the pacing because the characters, the story, and the world are all so compelling and fascinating that it wouldn't have mattered how many pages Williams spent meandering around Osten Ard. I think when characters are so intricately done it becomes easy to draw the reader in and sort of removes the need to push or force the plot quickly.

    I am so excited about this book and Pat's review brought a smile to my face because it seems that everything I loved about The Name of the Wind is still very much the core of what The Wise Man's Fear is about.
     
  11. pat5150

    pat5150 Staff

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    Which is the reason why, in my humble opinion, those who liked TNotW will love TWMF, and why I saw that those readers who were not all that impressed with Rothfuss' debut need not bother.

    Patrick
     
  12. nquixote

    nquixote trolling > dissertation

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    Hey, despite my mild disappointment with The Name of the Wind, I'm definitely going to pick up The Wise Man's Fear.

    ...in mass market paperback, mind you. ;-)
     
  13. Haliax

    Haliax Registered User

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    I'm really looking forward to this book. I expect it will be at least one of my top 5 for the year. Anything less and I'll be a little disappointed.
     
  14. Phil Connors

    Phil Connors Registered User

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    Re: http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2011/01/wise-mans-fear.html

    Aaaah the wonder of opinions ;) I have to stick my oar in here, to balance the scales as it were. With the greatest respect Pat, there's some stuff in your review that is simply....well, I found it misleading, to be honest. The University section is patently not a tedious retreading of old ground. To suggest that Rothfuss wastes 400 pages telling us the same stuff all over again is disingenuous to say the least. This section is full of tension and adventure, the deepening of Kvothe's knowledge, some truly wonderful moments with Elodin, Auri, Kilvin and Hemme, the pursuit of forbidden knowledge, powerful confrontations...honestly, it sounds like you read a different book to me. It is a wonderful section.

    As for Rothfuss 'holding back', not deepening the world? Again, we must've read different books. The scope of WMF is extremely broad - culturally, geographically, he takes us to some incredible places. We gain deep insights into language, power, history, and watch Kvothe grow in power and character.

    Anyway, that's just my alternative view, in case people felt the wind (ahem) knocked out them a bit. I had to chime in because I fell deeply in love with NOTW, and was worried that he wouldn't be able meet my expectations with WMF. He surpassed them in every single way.
     
  15. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    Thank you and well said. Pat's review was extremely well written. All of his reviews are but I found all the nit picking strange given that I never found any of the issues he complained about present in The Name of the Wind. Those same issues he states are present in The Wise Man's Fear. Obviously I have yet to read WMF so of course I can't comment on the new issues he brings up but they just didn't seem to be problematic. For me it matters little but I did have concern given the amount of hits this website gets that the review might turn some away from what I have no doubt is going to be a fantastic book.

    Dammit I am starting a blog just so I can start getting ARCs of all these amazing books!!

    Peace
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  16. MattNY

    MattNY Registered User

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    Like Third Eye, I have not read WMF either. However, your description above of the University events does sound like a retread of old ground to me. Those are all things that were done previously in NOTW. Like you said, it is all the matter of opinion, and some people will like it and some will not. Taking whether or not it is good or bad out of the equation though, it does sound like we will be returning to the University and revisiting some themes though.

    I think Pat's point, again, appears to be valid. If you loved NOTW, you will love WMF. If you didn't, you will view it a bit as more of the same.
     
  17. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    Gotta disagree with this. Phil, who read the ARC, just expressed the exact opposite sentiment. Rothfuss isn't revisiting the same subject matter he is continuing to tell the story of Kvothe. The university years are vital think of where Rothfuss left off. Kvothe still has quite a lot to learn before he becomes the most powerful wizard in the Four Corners. I think it would be absurd NOT to continue where NOTW left off. It would be ridiculous to start WMF with a Kvothe that just miraculously becomes this uber powerful character. I want to read the story of how it happens and I don't care how many pages it takes which is a testament to Rothfuss's remarkable talent and skill. Phil just made it clear that quite a lot goes on during the opening pages and what is going on is engaging and relevant to plot development.

    I respect Pat. I think he writes great reviews and he seems like a nice dude. But again I have to wonder how much of his review is colored by his taste in fantasy. Go read the Memories of Ice review. I cannot comprehend how that could ever get a 10/10. Erikson's prose isn't in the same universe as Rothfuss and his plot lines are thin and disjointed. Nothing engaging in terms of character development unless Marvel is your cup of tea. I could understand Pat giving A Game of Thrones a 10/10 (not that I would) or Mieville's Perdido Street Station but Erikson? Just seems like quite a bit of personal preference.

    All that aside is any review completely critically accurate? Outside of standard literary constructs taste is going to color any perspective. I suspect the true measurement comes when a book is reviewed by a broad range of both authors and publishers. When you get enough reviews naturally you will get a more accurate perspective on how the book is being received. Given the critical acclaim NOTW received and the buzz already surrounding WMF I suspect we are all in for something special.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  18. Electronic6

    Electronic6 Registered User

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    Well I would give NoTW a 6/10, while MoI a 10/10. :D Then again I generally dislike rating systems. They just seem very pointless and invite flamewars, not to mention you can't really portray how much you like a book(or movie) via a number or letter or stars.

    Just found NoTW very lame, apart from the writing, and everything after Kvoth entering the University felt very, but very uninteresting. Also there was no real ending, it just kinda stopped. And wasn't the biggest fan of the dragoncow. Was not feeling the overall vibe out it, after those really cool first 200 or so pages.

    While in MoI, I was entertained during all of the book and involved with the world and characters.(even the clone ones!) Does that mean that MoI(and for that matter the whole of Malazan) doesn't have massive flaws? Not it doesn't. But when Erikson hits his mark he does it wonderfully. Flaws or not. I just didn't get that from NotW. But anyway I'm not Pat and I'm sure he has his own reasons.

    Moving on:
    While I'm not over enthusiastic with WMF,(Even though I'll buy the hardback version if possible, I'm that kind of an idiot) I do hope Rothfuss manages to bring me into his world as Erikson did with Malazan.
    Though hearing that a big chunk of the novel is in the University is not good news. I was guessing that part would be solved pretty quickly at the start of the novel and Kvothe could move on into his crazy adventures, which was what it was being advertised in the back of the novel. Never it said "I spent countless days pondering the financial status of my life.", I hope future editions they put that in. :D
     
  19. 3rdI

    3rdI Edema Ruh

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    Forget what story you like. Purely from a literary standpoint you can sit with a straight face and tell me Erikson is a 10/10 level author? :confused:

    To each their own.

    Patrick Rothfuss = 200% awesome. The Kingkiller Chronicles = Fantasy at its best.
     
  20. Electronic6

    Electronic6 Registered User

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    From a literary standpoint(whatever that means) no he is not. And cause you going down this road nor is Patrick Rothfuss. They probably share the same level and everything. ^^ Rothfuss is no Gene Wolfe or Jack Vance or Mervyn Peake. And depending on how broad your fantasy term is, his no Jorge Luis Borges or Gabriel Garcia Marques.