[starry-eyed]

Do you know, I don't think that from a plot perspective you really needed the first book- at least not how it was written. There was something else that Sailing to Sarantium provided for the narrative. An ambience, maybe? Character development? I can't quite put my finger on it. I could see how if the characters didn't appeal to you, you wouldn't find much use for the first installment of the Sarantine Mozaic. Even I will admit that Kay's beginnings are not as strong as his endings. And that's the whole point, right- finish off as strong or stronger than you started.

[Ell]

I remember the first time I was to read Sailing I just couldn't. I started but then after pretty much 25 pages I was completely bored and put it away for a very long time. (which gave me a hefty library fine as I even forgot to return it in time..!)

Then I came back to it a few years later, maybe a year ago. And it was so wonderful. From the first page to the last it really got me to think. I still feel that Lord of Emperors is even better but I can't say that Sailing in any way was disappointing.
I thought it introduced the story very well, and while I can agree that an introduction of an entire book is a little long I guess maybe my opinion is coloured because I was already from the start so set on the idea that it was just one really LARGE book (only divided on two) so it all just seemed like one flowing tale to me.

Well, I don't know. I am just too pre-inclined to like GGK.

[Andrew J]

I've started reading these two books of the Mosaic, having only read Kay's Tigana before, and have come to a similar conclusion that still manages to diverge from the rest in here: Sailing to Sarantium is tedious, yes, and maybe a little could have been cut down, but it really is essential for the next book.

See, the problem with the Mosaic, and the reason why they go "lock and key" (anyone doubting this should read the prologue of Sailing again after finishing Lord of Emperors--it's the most important part of the book other than the Zubir) is that it was ONE book: The Sarantine Mosaic, not Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors. That's why Vargos and Kasia appear in the Sailing as side POVs then thin out by the end to no importance, and why they're picked up again (though in brief) in Lord of Emperors. That's why Senator Bronsous (sp?) appears in Sailing in a few key scenes, explaining important parts of the history (Victory Day Riots), then disappears, then reappears in Lord to finish his story (a sort of full circle with his memories of history.) That's why the talking birds appear in Sailing as important, become rather a mysterious, unknown by the end, then reappear as important halfway through Lord. That's why Scortius and Taras has a lengthy POV in Sailing, disappear and offer little point, then reappear as important in Lord to the basic events of history (remember, the importance placed on chariot drivers in Sarantine, the title of part two of Lord, Scortius' nickname for himself, how the Emperor ignores all of this and what happens to him--it connects.)

It's a shame they couldn't bind these two volumes as they do Robert Jordan's monstrous novels, because it'd be a lot stronger for it.

[FicusFan]

It's a shame they couldn't bind these two volumes as they do Robert Jordan's monstrous novels, because it'd be a lot stronger for it.

I will have to disagree. Even if they were bound together, the first half would still be boring and have a lot of pointless stuff. I read the 2 back to back and think that the second book with perhaps a bit more could have been the whole story.

To me the big difference was the change in POV characters. The mosaicist of the first book was not a very good character. I didn't hate him or what he did, but he didn't live for me, and I wasn't interested in him.

But different strokes for different folks.

[Brahm_K]

Alas, I had written a whole long and somewhat eloquent post about how Crispin is one of the best developed characters in fantasy and how Sailing to Sarintium (and Lord of Emperors) is one of the most moving books that I have ever read. Then my computer crashed. Suffice to say that I argued in favour of these things and hopefully made some points about them. Hopefully if I'm not lazy tommorow I'll re-type it out. To put it short: Sailing to Sarintium is necessary in the Sarantium Mosaic; for its character development in the first half (and in the second as well), for the great politics; for the beautiful realization of Constantinople/Sarantium; and for the evolution of the main theme of the Sarantine mosaic, man's desire to leave a legacy. Crispin's final POV is one of the most moving pieces of introspective writing that fiction has to offer.

As for some more specific points (though this may be pointless, as I'm responding to posts over a year old, and if I'm being obnoxious in this raising of dead issues, I appologise):





I thought he might be interesting when i started, G G Kay is a writer that is good enough to have a grieving protagonist that doesn't get whiny, but his inconsolable greif didn't last 2 minutes when he got the slave girl into his bedroom. I thought that whole scenario was pretty week and predictable - like something out of one of the (better-writtem) conan stories:

'Hero saves beautiful slave girl from human sacrifice (for entirely altruistic purposes, of course), she's grateful, he shags her, she follows him around even though he frees her and shows no interest in her life.'



You'll have to excuse my when I say this, but I think you're misinterpreting the scene. Crispin, at this point, has been moping and refusing to live for a year and a half to two years. This scene, along with the zubir scene and the church scene where Crispin sees the great mosaic, are critical moments for Crispin in terms of character development as he "sails to Sarantium." For the first time in a long time, Crispin is finally able to reach out for human contact, even if it is fleeting. I find it quite in line with his character; its not like he has sex with her, forgets about his wife and daughters and falls in love. He reaches out for a moment, and is still haunted by his percieved failings and his loss afterwards. Had the characters not been developed your above description might be apt, but the sex and the following of Crispin by Kasia after are in line with both their characters and makes sense.



Oh, and i really didn't like the obsession with chariot racing. The fanatical supporters could have been interesting, but the whole thing was pretty simplified - maybe more research into football hooliganism and less into the roman empire would have helped. :rolleyes: It wasn't important to the characters, the city, or the plot (such as there was). And horse racing in any day or age is simply boring.



Although my disagreement with you concerning the excitement of the chariot scenes is a matter of taste, their placement in history is not. Chariot racing was very important in 6th century Constantinople (upon which Sarantium is based), and Kay researched it very well. The rivalry between the Blues and the Greens (so named in Constanintople as well) was spot on in terms of history, and certain events in the book (for example, the fans united to riot as a result of the tax officer, Lysippus) are basically a replica of historical events. Anyone attempting to do justice to 6th century Constantinople would have to include chariot racing; it was incredibly important. As a fan of Byzantine history, I found the rivalry between the Blues and the Greens to be historically realistic (though I am by no means an expert). It was important to the city and the characters in Sailing to Sarantium; and it does become important to the plot and thematic developments in Lord of Emperors. Therefore, its inclusion in the book is warranted.



Hmmm. for once i agree with almost everything Ficus has said, so maybe i'll put the sequel back on my to read list. :rolleyes:

Its been a year, so, hopefully you took up Ficus' advice and read Lord of Emperors, and hopefully, enjoyed it. Sorry if this post has been really long winded, boring and pompous, folk (and it was a lot more so before my goddamn computer crashed and whatnot), but Sailing to Sarantium is one of my favourite books of all time, and I felt it needed a defense. Someone could have probably done it shorter and better, but what can you do?

[mistri]

I've been absent from this forum for a long time, so it was fun to find an active thread that I last contributed to over a year ago.

Eventually I did finish the second book of this duology and enjoyed it very much - yes, even the chariot racing! I admire Kay a lot, but he is one of those authors you have to read all at once - if you put the book down for too long, it's very hard to get into it again. I suffered this the most with A Song for Arbonne, which I've tried (and failed) to read three times, even though I consider this, Tigana and Lions of Al-Rassan to be among my favourite fantasy books read thus far.