[JRMurdock]

And even if God were disproven I don't think religeon will lose because the basic principles it has stood for are still very useful to humans.


Hehehe... I'm going to grab onto this one like a rabid dog! :)

Here are planted the seeds of doubt. Faith must be complete. To make this statement means you waver in your faith for God cannot be disproven if you believe 100% that there is a God, no?

I've ALWAYS belived that the 'good' book is a set of really nice stories to tell a person how to lead a good life. God is just a character in that book becuase what better form of control can the church and leaders (they went hand in hand for many a century) have than to have an omnipotent 'God' that only they can talk to? It's pretty scary to think that your every thought is being looked at and analyzed by one being. That's frightening. That's the point of religion. To frighten the masses into being good. To do what 'they' want you to do. It's all about control, not faith. It's about being able to get people to do what you want when you want them to do it.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that the Bible was written to keep Chaos from dominating over a land where people had limited control over others. Religion brought those people together. For that time, it was a good thing. It's lost it potency in today's society. It doesn't have the same meaning or impact as it used to. It's still a good guide, but it's no longer the dominant force it used to be. Even the most faithful can be shaken.

[kongming]

I'm just saying that there are things that are likely to happen and things that are unlikely to varying degrees, but none of us can say any are facts, their just really probable or improbable. I would say that all those things you just said happened were probably going to happen as you expected and that wishing the cars to stop was a very highly impropable way of getting across the street safely, but luckily you managed to avoid them

Hey, unless I forgot to get it inspected and I ignored all of the moans and squeaks, I expect that the brakes will work. And guess what? So far I have been correct. Isn't that amazing? I also turned the light switch upward this morning and the lights went on. When I dialed a combination of numbers on my telephone, the person I had hoped would, answered. Should I be astounded by all of this?

But, sadly, when I tried to walk across the street while all of the cars were zooming by, I almost got killed. Though I thought I might be able to stop them by wishing it, I was wrong.

[Gary Wassner]

But why was it unlikely? How do you make that determination?

[JRMurdock]

I'm just saying that there are things that are likely to happen and things that are unlikely to varying degrees, but none of us can say any are facts, their just really probable or improbable. I would say that all those things you just said happened were probably going to happen as you expected and that wishing the cars to stop was a very highly impropable way of getting across the street safely, but luckily you managed to avoid them

But there are cultures that put their fate into God's hands. They WILL step off the curb into traffic without looking and it's 'God's Will' if the cars can stop in time. If they were meant to die at that time, God will not stop the car.

This is absolute faith or absolute stupidity. Take your pick. The Bible does say God will look out for those who look out for themselves.

[kongming]

Believe me I've sifted this question endless times through my REALLY BIG (read: tiny) brain. I've thought, can this idea really shake my faith. If I say something like that does that mean that I doubt? And the answer was always no. I couldn't figure out why until I looked at Yahweh. An omnipotent being EXISTS and DOESN'T EXIST at the same time. So that satisfies me. If you say he doesn't exist I think you may be right, if I say he does then I'm right too. And I might be a bit of a jerk for chuckling at the irony created for athiests.

Hehehe... I'm going to grab onto this one like a rabid dog! :)

Here are planted the seeds of doubt. Faith must be complete. To make this statement means you waver in your faith for God cannot be disproven if you believe 100% that there is a God, no?

[kongming]

Same reason you do I guess. You've seen it happen that way enought times and trust that it always will. I mean why do you thing it's impossible for your brakes to work in some fashion than science dictates?

But why was it unlikely? How do you make that determination?

[kongming]

I don't know what would lead them to think that. God has never told me what would happen if I do a ceratin thing or that he would interfere in anything. So I don't know how to answer this sentiment:

A) they're delusional and lucky
b) they pay god more more and get a better package deal.


But there are cultures that put their fate into God's hands. They WILL step off the curb into traffic without looking and it's 'God's Will' if the cars can stop in time. If they were meant to die at that time, God will not stop the car.

This is absolute faith or absolute stupidity. Take your pick. The Bible does say God will look out for those who look out for themselves.

[JRMurdock]

So if you belive that God is and isn't, what is it that you base your faith on?

[kongming]

Well the universe wasn't and then there was a quantum singularity and then it was according to science, and yes I follow this logic too.

So I don't see it as being that big a step to say that the nature of space time would be such that it bends in upon itself and therefore we are concurrentlty living in the universe created after the big bang and not existing in the infinite nothing that came before. Maybe the afterlife is the quantum singularity.

So if you belive that God is and isn't, what is it that you base your faith on?

[Miriamele]

Whoa, I'm having trouble keeping up with this thread...I think I'm going to have to stop reading, because this discussion could potentially go on forever. Like Gary said way back, faith is immune to reason, which means ultimately it's not something that can be discussed rationally, at least not with the possibility of coming to a concrete conclusion. Some people believe in God and the Bible, some people don't...and neither party is likely to convince the other of anything anytime soon!

(Don't get me wrong, this discussion has been quite interesting to keep up with.) :)