[Gary Wassner]

But what is it that makes human life more sacred than a cow's? Are we back to the soul once again? And what's that?

[Nevyn]

Not an irony at all RAD, though good to hear it!
Gary I'll answer to your question tomorrow, very late here!

Goodnight and peace be with you,
Brad

[RAD]

I don't pretend to know what a soul is, or even if they're real, but the simple fact that we can sit and discuss these things tells me a human life has more value than an animal's.

Animals exist simply to breed before they die. Humans can be more than that. A human life has infinite potential if it's given a supportive environment and upbringing.

[Gary Wassner]

Potential for what? We also have destructive potential. Does that mitigate our creative potential?

Sure, there are obvious differences. Reason is one of them, the tenant of humanism. But reason also allows us to question faith. Hence, some of the problems between humanism and religion.

[RAD]

Mitigate? I'd say it complements our creative potential. Can't have one without the other.

The same imagination that allowed the Wright Brothers to concieve of flight can also project invisible, tyrannous dieties behind every happenstance and read rewards or punishments into every coincidence or natural phenomena.

And on a personal note, as a human I can't help but feel biased toward humans. There, I admit I'm prejudiced :D

[Gary Wassner]

And I tend to like trees and dogs much better. ;)

[Dawnstorm]

"Edel sei der Mensch,
Hilfreich und gut" (Göthe)

(~ "Noble be man, helpful and good.")

There's a folk parody of this running, at least, through Austria:

"Edel sei der Mensch,
Milchreich die Kuh."

(~ Nobel be man, milk-ful the cow.)

I always liked the parody. It hits home.

To humans, the value of "humans" is a value of "being", whereas a cow has utility value.

Attempts to assign value - outside of utility - to creatures, often simply assume humans as most valuable, and distribute values across the rest of the animal kingdom in degrees of similarity and difference. There's no reason why I couldn't worship the God of Simplicity and view humans as corrupted amoebae.

[Dazzlinkat]

As to the Stem Cell Research: they use the stem cells of embryos that ARE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY ! During the fertilization process multiple embryos are concieved from which only a couple or so are chosen to be implanted in the womb. The rest are destroyed. It is from these embryos destined for destruction that the stem cells come from. (That more unscrupulous sources can be used is NOT the fault of the science but the fault of the SCIENTIST.)

As to souls: How do you decide someone/thing has a soul?
1) ability to communicate (language). Most animals of some form of language, usually encompassing sound and body language. Many can even understand our languages.

2) live in a society. most animals living in groups have a common language, a government (leaders), and a sense of community. Non-parent member of a group defending the young (wolf pack defending pups) or the groups territory (lions, wolves and many other).

3) have emotions. several animals mate for live and appear to mourn the loss of a partner (wolves, jackals, swans). Elephants seem to exhibit a high degree of emotions, especially when encountering the bones of other elephants. Cats, and especially dogs, have developed love for people as well as learned how to be a part of our societies as well as there own.

The greatest difference between animals and humans: animals never lie. Humans are deceitful.

[Gary Wassner]

My dogs can be pretty sneaky. ;)

[Yobmod]

The Bible makes it clear that the unborn baby is a person (Genesis 25:21–22, Psalm 139:13–16, Jeremiah 1:5, Luke 1:41–44).

Actually, I looked up a few sites before i posted. Attempting to remove the bias (by comparing the pro-abortion, anti-abortion pages) makes it obvious that the bible isn't clear either way - lots of quibling over the translation of specific words, and not a single example of Jesus or divinely inspired prophet saying "abortion is murder" or "thou shalt not abort."

Eg "For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for Thou art fearfully wonderful. (from Psalm 139:13-16).

All it says is that God wove him in the womb - it doesn't say he was a person from conception, or that abortion is wrong. God makes everything by definition, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be meddled with.
I've also seen many argue that various biblical passages say its better to die in the womb than live a miserable life.

I understand that the Jewish belief (based on much the same biblical sources as a christian stance) is that a baby gets its sprit, and becomes a person, while being born.

From conception, the embryo is biologically fully human, with its full complement of DNA. Well before the 24th week, this person is moving—even sucking a thumb.

Lots of things have full complements of human DNA, like every skin cell i shed - it is not sufficient to give the embryo the right to torture the mother. No adult would be able to inflict such things on a woman without her consent.

But what is it that makes human life more sacred than a cow's? Are we back to the soul once again? And what's that?

I though the biblical stance was that cow's did have souls?

The Bible says that God created three kinds of creatures:

Creatures which possess bodies (Hebrew - basar, Greek - swma) only
Creatures which possess bodies and souls (Hebrew - nephesh, Greek - psuchay)
Creatures which possess bodies, souls, and spirits (Hebrew - ruach, Greek - pneuma)

Most of God's creatures possess bodies only. These creatures include the insects, worms, fish, etc. God defines the creatures possessing souls as being the birds, the whales, the predatory and domesticated land mammals, and human beings (Genesis 1:20-27). Creatures which possess a soul have the characteristics of having a mind, a will, and emotion. Most of us who have cats or dogs realize that these soulish creatures have all these character traits.

Therefore, the difference between human life and animal life is that, in addition to having a body and soul, we are endowed with a spirit, (1 Thessalonians 5:23), by which we can communicate with, love, and worship God.

So humans are only different in being able to love God. Can an embryo love God?