[ironchef texmex]

I attempt to adopt a default position of "I don't know for sure" -- which requires me to describe precisely what I don't know...

I've discovered that one of the nice things about believing in a absolutely true 'proof text' is that I don't have to write out long statements of belief. It's already written down.

I have a new appreciation for the work that went into making my Bible. Thanks, Koo. :D

Of course, mine is kind of simplistic at times.

But I cannot conceive of the entirety of the system being self-aware without generating infinite self-referentiality with infinite levels of omnipotency where every God has a God, infinitely.

.......Aaaaand now I appreciate that simplicity, too.

While you're pondering the distinction between one being that is timeless, all-places, all-powerful, and an infinite regression of such beings, I think I'll go make pancakes. It's the lazy thinker in me. ;) Well, that and the jones for some pancakes.

[Fung Koo]

Somebody had to write the text that was written for you. Who's to say I'm not divinely inspired?!?! We'll see if a Church springs up around me. ;) And you know the best part? My name is Christopher... believer in, follower of, Christ. heheheh. :D I used to try to get people to call me Christ instead of Chris, since the real etymological division is Christ-opher, not Chris-topher. But people never seem to go for it... :p

[Gary Wassner]

My son's name is Cristopher. No Christ in it at all, though he's an amazingly gentle human being.

I was watching a bit of Larry King last night. Bill Maher has made a new movie: HE OF NO FAITH MAKES MOST UNGODLY MOVIE was the headline. It should be interesting.

We should get him to participate in our forum. You and he should get along well, Tex.

[Fung Koo]

Let's get Dawkins and Hutchins in here too!

[falcon57]

Let me explain my position and then I will make clear why I think that not believing is still
believing (sounds crazy I know).

I do believe that the two valued logic has done much harm, because it implies that
a thing either exists or it doesn't. For me it makes more sense to have four values. Namely:
"true", "false", "undecidable", "i reject". In the undecidable case you have either not
enough information or the retrieval is garanteed to go for ever. In the case of "i reject"
you have absurd (conflicting!) information.

Example for undecidable: Are the more prime numbers ending with the digit 3 or
more prime numbers ending with the digit 7 ? (goes forever)

Example for 'I reject': Does nothing exist? (absurd)

Actually this is only an ideal, the fifth real value is: 'i couldn't care less', but this
is often overlooked or ommitted.

What do believers do? They insist giving the value 'true' to the question: Does god exist?
thinking the alternative is 'false'.

What I do? I insist giving the value 'absurd/i reject' to the question: Does god exist?
thinking the alternative is one of the others.

When you look it that way, I'm a believer too. Reject all you want at the end you're still
a believer.

Hey, and guess what, I does feel good to be a believer you just must get used to the
idea that 'absurd' is a legitimate value. Why would my god be impaired just because he
absurd? ;-)

Have fun

[ironchef texmex]

Somebody had to write the text that was written for you. Who's to say I'm not divinely inspired?!?! We'll see if a Church springs up around me. ;) And you know the best part? My name is Christopher... believer in, follower of, Christ. heheheh. :D I used to try to get people to call me Christ instead of Chris, since the real etymological division is Christ-opher, not Chris-topher. But people never seem to go for it... :p


No, gaining a cult following would not make you unique. Getting even your opponents to agree that you had performed miracles would put you in pretty rare company, though.

[ironchef texmex]

I was watching a bit of Larry King last night. Bill Maher has made a new movie: HE OF NO FAITH MAKES MOST UNGODLY MOVIE was the headline. It should be interesting.

We should get him to participate in our forum. You and he should get along well, Tex.


I used to watch Politically Incorrect back in the day. I got the impression that the only thing he hated more than Christians was women.

[ironchef texmex]

Hey, and guess what, I does feel good to be a believer you just must get used to the
idea that 'absurd' is a legitimate value. Why would my god be impaired just because he
absurd? ;-)

Have fun


Interesting point, but tricky to work through because the question "does God exist?" is so multifaceted.

Ask the question a different way. "Is there any hope in life?"

Here, a yes answer says that there is a metaphysical purpose to life. A no answer means any real purpose can only exist in the physical realm. Deferring the answer with any sort of argument from absurdity is problematic. People are people. They still yearn for purpose, whether or not the answer can ever be "proven" in any objective sense. That's why the secular ideology's (marxism, etc.) predictions of religious zeal diminishing in the world never quite pan out.

It's also why this thread never ends. :)

[Fung Koo]

No, gaining a cult following would not make you unique. Getting even your opponents to agree that you had performed miracles would put you in pretty rare company, though.

Miracles... oy.

I saw Criss Angel pull a woman in half. That was pretty impressive. Strange they never showed him putting her back together...

[Gary Wassner]

I saw something similar in Vegas (the new Jerusalem) last year. Miracle after miracle, up and down the strip. Some though must be authentic because they have larger crowds in attendance and they're sold out for months. ;) Surely the miracles are real. But some we all know are just magicians. They're not as good or as popular.