[Mithfânion]

Could be SM Fantasy books, I don't quite know the English term. I saw a reference made to such books lately, about how cheap they were and how many were being "put out" http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif recently. I don't know a single one, the only one that might come close is Carey's Kushiel's dart. So what are they and what exactly are they about? How heavy is the emphasis on sex? Are they all crap?

[Zsinj16]

The english term for S&M is sado-masochism. I don't really care to explain the definition. I have never read an S&M Fantasy novel, nor would I ever want to.
From what I've heard, one example of an S&M Fantasy novel is Anne Bishop's Black Jewels Series. BLECH!!!!

[astrianna]

I would agree that Kushiel's Dart deals with S&M, since that is the defining characteristic of Phedre. Since that's true, I'd have to say that I have no problem reading fantasy that deals with alternative sexuality. It's not all crap, and it's not all pornographic, although the further into the kinkiverse you go, the more likely you are to find people writing for shock value alone. Since many people are drawn to the very things that repulse them, lots of vanilla folks get a voyeuristic kick out of reading about the lifestyles they wouldn't want to live. Thus it sells, thus it is written. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any really hardcore S&M fantasy, since I don't tend to read it. If you're interested in the subject, "The Story of O" is considered a classic introduction, although it's fiction and not fantasy.

Also, I have to say "The english term for S&M is sado-masochism." made me giggle. Technically, S&M stands for sadism and masochism, and sado-masochism would be SM. Just to pick nits, ya know.

[kassimir funk]

I would just like to commend Astrianna for coining the term "kinkiverse"

I'm going to make that a staple of my vocabulary.

btw... I think you're right.. eventually people will just add such things in for shock value. Often to cover up their otherwise crappy work.

[JohnH]

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[Cadfael]

I agree with the above... except for the Goodkind comments...

Yes... his sex scene's are explicit... very expicit... but they are not just there for the sake of it. They are an integral part of the plot IMHO, and usually has sweeping repercussions for the characters involved.

[Zsinj16]

Wait a minute, from what I've heard of Sarah Douglass, she doesn't write S&M Fantasy novels.

[e-Morgana]

I, too, have been wracking my brain to think of what JohnH meant by that. (in regard to Sara Douglass at least). Perhaps you could elaborate a little. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[JohnH]

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[e-Morgana]

????? Hmmmmmmmm..........I must have missed those bits - will have to go have another look. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif