The fallen hero doesn't get much attention... is there even a cycle for the fallen hero (like the heroic cycle is for the hero) or does the fallen hero just end up doing his own thing after he falls off teh heroic cycle?
July 24th, 2005, 04:05 PM
I quite like what The Incredibles did with the fallen hero(s) thing.
Mundanity as the antithesis of heroism.
July 24th, 2005, 04:26 PM
Usually, the fallen hero then looks for redemption. The fallen hero is a little more common in suspense fiction than sff, but if your main character is older, experienced, tough, and depressed, odds are he or she is a fallen hero with a troubled past.
July 24th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Maybe we are talking about different types of fallen heroes... I mean the ones who fall to temptation, turn to the dark side, etc.
July 24th, 2005, 05:40 PM
Oh, well those are more fallen angels. It's a type of villain. Such a person either is redeemed at the last -- Darth Vadar -- or destroyed. Redemption for the ones who are redeemed often also includes death.
July 25th, 2005, 04:22 AM
It also depends on what you mean my 'fallen'. In the case of our old mate Jesus C. his true heroism didn't really start until after he'd fallen.
Is a martyr a fallen hero? Do you have to be alive to be a hero?
How about sufference (Nelson Mandella springs to mind). There is a cycle here. Hero, fall, Hero again, inept leader(?), prehaps another fall...
July 25th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Ok, fallen hero as a hero who has fallen to temptation or the dark side. Is there a cycle for them? Some might even consider them villains, it's more like the stages leading to becomming a villain I suppose.
July 25th, 2005, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=TheEarCollector]Ok, fallen hero as a hero who has fallen to temptation or the dark side. /QUOTE]
Isn't that would happens when they get too big for their boots and think just because they can slain a few itsy bitsy monsters and married a princess, they are on par with the gods?
I am thinkig of Bellerophon from the Greek myths here who tries to fly to Olympus on his winged horse. Of course the Olympians don't think much of the idea and send a gadfly to startle Pegasus and send Bellerophon crashing down to Earth without a parachute. From then on he is never the same man again.
Mind you, the Greeks were hot on hubris.
July 25th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Of course the Olympians don't think much of the idea and send a gadfly to startle Pegasus and send Bellerophon crashing down to Earth without a parachute. From then on he is never the same man again.
That would make Bellerophon the very definition of a fallen hero. :) (You knew someone would have to say it.)
I don't know if there is a paradime for a fallen hero. I think we tend to ahbor someone who isn't faithful, or at least reliable. Suppose Samwise had decided, "Heck with it, I'm keeping the ring." :eek:
We would be faced with one who is a bad guy now, but was he ever really a hero at all? It may be there is room in literature for more of these not exactly cookie cutter villians.
July 25th, 2005, 02:07 PM
We would be faced with one who is a bad guy now, but was he ever really a hero at all? It may be there is room in literature for more of these not exactly cookie cutter villians.B5
No necessarily. Take another Greek hero, Theseus. He saves Athens by running a sorceress out of town, kills the Minotaur and sees off an Amazon army. All real heroic stuff. Then he and his mate Peirithous go and first adduct Helen later of Troy fame, then try to do the same to Persephone. for the latter crime the naughty lad finds himself stuck to a chair in Hades
There is no reason why a hero can not go bad after being a good guy just as a villian can mend his ways.