[estranghero]

Nevyn: It's not a problem, really. I admit that between Declare and The Anubis Gate, TAG was a faster-paced, more fun read. But like I said earlier, TAG can't seem to bear a closer or second look, unlike Declare.

FF: Ditto. ;)

[FicusFan]

I ordered Declare tonight. None in stock.

[Julian]

I ordered Declare tonight. None in stock.

Really? That might depend where you order:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380798360/qid=1124226798/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-5439576-3110245?v=glance&s=books

Strange no one here has yet mentioned Tim Powers's absolutely wonderful "Last Call", which I - for one - thought rather a bit better than "Declare" (and certainly more accomplished than "The Anubis Gates").

Sorry, I'm butting in here, and talking about a different subject, too - but since you guys seem to be ruminating about the best Powers... Well, it's there and it's called, errr, Last Call.

[estranghero]

Hahaha! That's true. Seems like we're getting around to all of Powers' stuff rather than talk about TAG.

Personally, haven't read Last Call but that's because I have that plus the two sequels Earthquake Weather and (???) lined up and I don' want to start without having enough time to read through all of them.

However, have been eyeing The Drawing of the Dark for quite some time now on my TBR pile...

[FicusFan]

Really? That might depend where you order:


No, I meant none in stock, as in none in the store, so I had to order. I wanted to buy one off the shelf, but no luck. I ordered through my store and they had them in their system and I got my copy last night.

[Cannon Fodder]

I liked The Anubis Gates a lot. A bit chaotic and frenetic for its own good, or too make too much sense but I found it to be imaginative, well written and entertaining. I think that the thing I did like about it was that so many elements and plot threads were thrown together so wildly. As a consequence a lot of things were contrived and ridiculous (The paradox, Doyle's one eighty in personality etc.) but I thought it worked in a light, fluffy novel like this. A lot of the concepts and plot elements could have been explored further but once again I felt they were explored enough for the kind of story this one was. I really enjoyed the settings. As it was I would have liked to have seen an entire novel set in the world of the beggars society of early 19th century London but not be. I liked the way Powers used some fairly well worn SFF ideas although I did like the bodyswapping stuff and all the ensuing complications, which I thought was a bit more innovative, a bit more than the time travel twists which seemed a little more familiar. (This could just be because I've read/seen more time travel stuff.) The only bits of the novel that really didn't work for me, and where I found Powers writing faltered, were the big action sequences- the stuff in the 1600's, which dragged on a bit and seemed like a lot of setup for little pay off and the Egyptian sequence. Way too much happened too fast there- Doyle joining up with the Mamelukes, the mutiny, the battle with the Egyptian sorcerer and so on. At the end of the day a fun, entertaining novel. I will have to track down some more Powers stuff.

[Yobmod]

I've ust finished the first half-book. So far i like it, but i do agree that sometimes the characters (Doyle and especially Benner) are a bit flat.

The magic i've seen so far is inventive and cool - i loved the Spoonsize Men in their eggshell boats :D
So far i've worked out all the twists about 50 pages before they were revealed. So Doyle being Ashbless wasn't a suprise, abut i really liked how it was done. The were-wolf body swapping thing was unusual and funny, and made a change from the character simply taking a historical role (like in Moorcock's Behold the Man).

I'm not having any problms with the paradox thing. They are so common in time travel stories, rivalled only by characters being secretely helped by their future selves, and spurious inclusion of famous historical people (2 of which AG has already had so far :rolleyes: ). I certainly find it to be simpler than the Back to the Future or Bill and Ted films. :D

I'm in two minds about the writing. Some parts i think are excellent, and Power's choice of words is perfect, but I'm occasional annoyed by his grammar. He has whole 10 line paragraphs that are one run on sentence with 4 clauses. A comma, dash, or semicolon IS NOT simply a substitute for a full-stop!

[Yobmod]

Finally finished. Overall i liked it, no change in my opinion over the 2nd half.

The paradoxes themselves didn't annoy me, but Doyles fatalism in the second half was exasperating. Once he'd decided that history couldn't be changed, he gave up trying to do the slightest thing differently - I didn't see anything to stop him writing more poetry, or not going to his predicted death. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, but he could have tried changing some small things.

The trip to egypt was the worst part of the book to me. I didn't understand why Doyle hung around to get shot (4 times!) and randomly pretended to be in the local gang. He had no problem getting passage to England whrn he was dressed as a mad beggar with filthy sores, so it couldn't be that difficult. The making of his Ka was boring, and its eventual fate was instantly obvious. Also the master was badly delineated, and seemed much less effective than Romanelli.


I liked how Doyle was an alcoholic, and manages to get hold of alcohol in every situation, no matter how inappropriate - and yet it wasn't portrayed in an angsty way.
But Doyle's invulnerability to magic got a bit annoying - touching the ground seemed to protect him from everything, yet he constantly 'forgot' to bother with it, waiting til he was nearly dead then stabbing himself in the foot (twice!). It seemed a such simple thing to do to me.
Also the part where he was tempted to join the dark side on the clearly ridiculous promise of getting his dead wife back didn't convince me - it had been way too long since he had even though about his wife, his nightmares about her death seemed to have gotten left being after the first 3rd of the book.

[Eventine]

OK, I'm a bit late for this one, after waiting for the Fantasy Masterworks release. I enjoyed this one.


Which doesn't really excuse anything as far as the paradoxical issues go. Either it's a complete paradox or it somehow implies that everything that has happened and ever will happen are already in the books, predestined, and free will is right out.


Have you read any of the Thursday Next books by Jasper Fforde? It deals with the exact same issue, although with a rather more wel known author, although plays it a lot lighter.
I liked the paradox myself, and thought the predestiny was dealt with rather well by the character - he knew that because he was Ashbless, and as Ashbless was going to do certain things in thge future, he was reasonably safe. It was then interesting seeing his trepidation trying to trust that destiny, and his horror when he realises his Ka could fill that spot for him.


The paradoxes themselves didn't annoy me, but Doyles fatalism in the second half was exasperating. Once he'd decided that history couldn't be changed, he gave up trying to do the slightest thing differently - I didn't see anything to stop him writing more poetry, or not going to his predicted death. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, but he could have tried changing some small things.


and there's the flip side...


I really enjoyed this book, especially the pacing. It read like something Stevenson or Dumas would write if they'd grown up watching Back to the Future.

My favourite scene would have to be Darrow/Fikee's death. There's nothing like a villain outsmarting themselves.

It was my first Powers read and I'll definitely keep my eye out for other offerings from him.

[Yobmod]

I was wondering if the non-europeans recognized Horrabin's puppetry show as being a Punch and Judy parody / tribute?

P&J is a kids stylised puppet show perfomed with hand puppets in booths at the sea side in the UK. It follows the adventures of Punch, a deformed psycopath, and shows him solving all his problems with ultra-violence. The plot differs depending on the pupeteer, but generally does like:

Punch is playing with Toby the Dog, and Toby bites Punch's nose.
Punch complains to Toby's owner (Mr Scaramouch), who accusing Punch of beating the dog.
They start fighting and Punch decapitates Mr Scaramouch.
Punch goes to see his wife (Judy), and is given their baby to look after.
The baby wont stop crying, so Punch bashes its head against a wall (or strangles it), then throws it out of the window. :eek:
When Judy finds out she starts hitting Punch, who gets his slapstick out and beats her to death
Punch gets injured (bitten by a crocadile who wants to steal his sausages?)
The Doctor comes on the scene and offers to treat Punch, but his treatment do more harm than good, so Punch kills him.
The Constable comes to arrest Punch, but gets a beating, then the Hangman (Jack Ketch) comes, and Punch is arrested.
At his hanging Punch tricks the Hangman into showing him how to put on the noose, and hangs him; :eek: he then fakes his own death by stuffing the Hangmans body into the coffin intended for him.
Finally the Devil appears and tries to take Punch to hell - but Punch resists, and eventually beats the Devil to death.

I think the various characters are supposed to represent the various ills that plague the common man - the whining children, nagging wife, boredom of suburbia, medical quackery, petty beaurocracy and legal and religious restrictions. The moral is 'now we can all do what we like!' :D

I would definatley recomend taking the time to watch a performance if you are in the UK and see one on the street (but they are getting pretty rare - i think i've only ever seen 2 or 3).