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Tari
August 24th, 2005, 08:57 AM
is any1 willing to have a look at a poem i wrote and an unfinished story that has only like two more chapters left?

The story is horror/almost Sci-fi. it's not finished but i'd like to know some specific things.

- do the characters interest you?
- does the story flow?
- do you think it's worthy of publication? (i know thats a little straight forward but i honestly want to know)
&
- When Toy says "I know" several times what do you think is happening? (only a two poeple who i gave it to actually got it right)

My poem on the other hand any advise or feed back would be welcome. i can always improve on my poetry skills.

If you're interested i'm just posting the poem.

(the linnk is not working so im just going to post the story in pieces. chapter by chapter probabbly and get advice as i go.)

~ Tari


BLank Book:

Shut.
You lay there, daring me to open you.
Would i dare disrupt the power you with hold?
I would and i did.
I accept your dare, i say
My hands grab at your protective black coat
Tearing it open.
The black coat flops easily down,
Resting on the grass beside you.
But you are empty. no power do you with hold.
Instead you place before me another dare.
A challenge.
I hesitate before pickig up the pen.
You tease. You play.
You bring about your own end.
Ink tears at you heart, as i graffitti your soul.
You ravish the pain. Embrace it.

STOP!

The pain withdraws to it's master
You heave a grateful sigh of relief
As I ease back on your protective black coat.
And there you lay.
Waiting.
Alone.
For the power has consumed you unto your end.

Monty Mike
August 24th, 2005, 09:01 AM
wow, I love the poem :D Certainly original and well written ;)

michaelS0620
August 24th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Tari,

Sorry if this hurts. I think this needs a lot of work before it becomes as strong a poem as it should be. Part of the problem is that you use a lot of cliches (I have marked them below). Part of the problem is that this does not really read like a poem. It reads like a prose, broken up to look like a poem.



Shut.
You lay there, daring me to open you.
Would i dare disrupt the power you with hold?
// Don't mix lower case and upper case "I". In fact, keep the upper case. Lower case "i"s were original when Cummings did it 80 years ago, but now are only cute. And withhold is one word.

I would and i did.
I accept your dare, i say
// You don't need "I say". We know the narrator is speaking. Also, you don't need both of the previous lines. They both say the same thing.

My hands grab at your protective black coat
// We don't need "my hands". Only specify the body part if it is unusual "I grab with my feet..."

Tearing it open.
The black coat flops easily down,
Resting on the grass beside you.
But you are empty. no power do you with hold.
// Is there a mistake here? Should it be "no power do you hold"? Or do you mean "withhold" (one word). Either way, don't use poetic inversion.


Instead you place before me another dare.
A challenge.
// I don't understand this. What was the first challenge? Opening the book?

I hesitate before pickig up the pen.
// Typo

You tease. You play.
You bring about your own end.
Ink tears at you heart, as i graffitti your soul.
// Cliche. You should be "your"

You ravish the pain. Embrace it.
// Cliche


STOP!

The pain withdraws to it's master
// I don't understand this line.

You heave a grateful sigh of relief
// This is a cliche

As I ease back on your protective black coat.
And there you lay.
Waiting.
Alone.
For the power has consumed you unto your end.
// Probably don't need "unto your end".


I hope this helps and I look forward to seeing a revision.

Michael

-Pineapple-
August 24th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Wow! Great poem !! :D

Dawnstorm
August 24th, 2005, 06:40 PM
A few comments on the poem. I like the idea, but I'm unsure about a few things.


Shut.
You lay there, daring me to open you.
Would i dare disrupt the power you with hold?
I would and i did.
I accept your dare, i say

Past or present tense? It is possible to construe the poem's first 4 lines as being written inbetween lines 4-5 and then the poem is spontaneously created, but that could be a trifle awkward.

A simple conversion to present tense, however, makes the poem read odd:

"You lie there, daring me to open you.
Will i dare disrupt the power you with hold?
I will and i do.
I accept your dare, i say "

Doesn't quite work, does it?

***

Another point: It's more important in poetry than in prose that there's little to no verbal ballast. Usually, a poem is stronger if it contains words that evoke an image (that's why poetry often contains more metaphors and symbols than prose; because metaphors add images to abstract concepts.)

The line "I would and I did." does not contain one word that evokes an image. This isn't necessarily bad, and it does fulfill a dramatic function. Still, the line struck me as unnecessary.


The black coat flops easily down,

The beginnings and endings of lines are important in poetry and can be used to emphasize a point. I think, your burying the word "easily" in this sentence, while at the same time disrupting the unity of "flops down". I'd shift "easily" to the front of the line (you could shift it to the end as well, but it's not a good idea to end a line on two unstressed syllables).


Resting on the grass beside you.

Narrative mistake. The present participle suggests simultanity; so the book cover would flop down and rest on the grass at the same time. Not possible.


And there you lay.

I suggest present tense (unless you're actually using the verb "to lay", which means "to put in a horizontal position" not "to be in a horizontal position", and which would be wrong.)


Waiting.
Alone.
For the power has consumed you unto your end.

If the power has consumed the book unto its end, what is left of it, to be waiting?

I didn't repeat points MichaelS has already made (like "with hold").

***

A question and a comment for Michael:


Either way, don't use poetic inversion.

Why not?


You don't need "I say". We know the narrator is speaking. Also, you don't need both of the previous lines. They both say the same thing.

Disagree. Without "I say", the line would transform into the description of an inner state, but what we have in this line is the poet talking to a book. Deleting "I say" completely changes the meaning and effect of the line.

michaelS0620
August 24th, 2005, 07:16 PM
A question and a comment for Michael:



Why not? (re: poetic inversion)


Poetic inversion sounds archaic, and is usually done to make the ends of lines rhyme. Inverting the natural order of phrases also makes it more difficult to read with little additional benefit. It also tends to add verbal ballast (I love that phrase!) to a line (needless words and phrases like "with which" and "of"). It's almost always better compactly and directly. This is no different from prose.

Writing "For groceries to the store I went" is bad, period, whether its poetry or prose. Now, like any other "rule" of writing, there are exceptions and people publishing perfectly good poetry that uses inversions. To be good, they have to be used thoughtfully.



Disagree. Without "I say", the line would transform into the description of an inner state, but what we have in this line is the poet talking to a book. Deleting "I say" completely changes the meaning and effect of the line.

In my mind there is little difference between inner and outer state here. To me there is no difference between the Narrator speaking out loud or saying to herself. There are no other characters in the poem besides the narrator and the book. The narrator is telling the story (as it happens) so I assume that when she says "I accept" she is saying it, (whether she says she's saying it or not).

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense.

Michael

Tari
August 24th, 2005, 09:25 PM
hey guys thnx for the help im at skool right now so i cant do much but this is the changes i've made to fit with Michael's suggestions.

BLank Book:

Shut.
You lay there, daring me to open you.
Would I dare disrupt the power you with hold?
I would and I did.
I grab at your protective black coat
Tearing it open.
The black coat flops easily down,
Resting on the grass beside you.
But you are empty. no power do you withhold.
Instead you place before me another dare.
A challenge.
I hesitate before picking up the pen.
You tease. You play. You taunt.
You bring about your own end.
Ink tears at your heart, as I graffitti your soul.
You ravish the pain. Embrace it.

STOP!

The pain withdraws to it's master
You heave a great sigh of relief
Easing back on your protective black coat.
And there you lay.
Waiting. Alone.
For the power has consumed you.

~ Tari

P.S. the first part of my story will be placed up l8r 2day when i get home and i will re read and edit the poem after thoroughly looking at your other suggestions.

Miller
August 25th, 2005, 03:37 AM
I liked the first one better. He is right about the two words being one though. Change that. Past that I didn't care to think much past it as being worth being read. You can either worry about their well thought ways to critisize another, or just keep producing good work.
It's up to you, but I would hope you don't fall into the SIMPLE TRAP they have led you into. I read the first poem you wrote, and only glanced at the second revision. Since the second, being much more to their liking, was totally plain and simple. Revert, ignore, and keep going. Your good.
I don't even like poetry, yet I would feel inclined to read yours, if that matters to you. But not the second revision there. The first attempt, that was the one. Don't write to impress those two, they most obviously aren't your readers (I'm assuming there was two of them? I didn't pay much attention past hack/slash/disrupt-your-creativity).
Your readers will read you, and they will like it. I did. Imagine me times 3, already my opinion beats their's.

edit-I read back and realized it was only one person. Don't sweat him, he's small potatoes.

Holbrook
August 25th, 2005, 05:55 AM
Errrr.... Miller can I just say that I don't agree with your advice to ignore a critique.

If you put something up for critique you are by the very nature of doing so going to get ones that stroke your ego and ones that wrap round your head like a gold plated brick.

The thing is to read very critique whether or not they praise you to the skies and learn from them. The main thing you learn is to develop a thick skin and be able to take the hammer blows and pick out of critiques the things you think will improve your work.

If some one has taken the time to read your work and comment, no matter good or bad in your eyes it is something you should thank them for.

If folks are just going to sit round telling each other how wonderful each others work is, then what is the point of asking for a critique....

michaelS0620
August 25th, 2005, 06:42 AM
Yes Miller,

You've got me. My lone intention is to crush the creative spirits of those who are foolsish enough to ask for critique. Your comments have no place on a forum for people who are serious about writing. My criticism was constructive and well grounded. I don't claim to be God's Poet, but an avoidance of cliche, verbal baggage, and inversion are standard stuff. Any other poet on any poetry board would have said the same thing.

Don't worry. Next time you post work of your own, I will be sure to pat you on the head and say "Nice Job!". If the forum has gold stars, I will give you one as well. Clearly it is more important to soothe your ego than it is to improve as a writer.

Michael