[DaniCarr]

OK, I don't know if anyone else is the same way as me but. When I read a poeme or something writen peoticaly, that is difficult. I can, like sence it's meaning. Almost like a piano playing and at certain other parts are suddenly played by say a clarenet or flut, sometimes a sax or trombone, and verious types of percussion.

But at the same time it's immposiple to explain what it means in words.

[Icelands]

Well, there's loads of thoughts here on that Annaren Nursery Rhyme. I'm honestly surprised at how much - it's obviously very important to the events and therefore extremely difficult to decipher - but I find this one makes a little more sense and a little less at the same time. It's just as important, yet nobody's brought it up.

Some of it was deciphered in the Naming, and in the other books, but much of it still remains a mystery, despite its length and clarity in comparison to the Annaren Nursery Rhyme.

And so, I ask: help me figure this one out, please!

The Norloch Poem:

Grows a Lily on the Briar
Grows a Briar on the wave
Triple-tongued its voice of Fire
Edil-Amarandh will save

True and false the cunning Flame
Burning in the darkest Night
False and true the secret Name
Quickened in the womb of Light

Where the Briar on the Foam?
Doth the Lily stemless stand?
Who will bring the Singing home?
Where the Harp? And whose the Hand?

Let the theories begin!



Well we know a few of these symbols.

Lily ---> Maerad

Briar ---> House of Karn

Wave ---> I know in the Crow that Saliman speculated that it could mean the Elementals, but I seem to remember reading in The Naming that a wave symbolized the Light. So maybe it's a double meaning.

Triple-tongued ---> Obvious

Fire ---> Like Eledoch said, Fire Lily. Could also mean her powers, which are destructive.

Edil-Amarandh will save ---> Obvious

True and false the cunning Flame ---> I think this is talking about the White Flame of Norloch, Enkir. He is true and false and cunning. It could also be talking about the heart of the Light. Maerad describes the Northern Lights in the Riddle as being a glimpse into the infinitely colder and mysterious heart of the Light.

Burning in the darkest night ---> This one's fairly simple-- Maerad is burning in the darkest night, where the Dark is at its most powerful.

BUT then this would imply that the true/false/cunning Flame would be Maerad. Which I think would indicate some of her inner struggles in the Riddle, where she becomes "darker". Also, this could have something to do with Inka-Reb saying that she lied to him without knowing it.

False and True the secret name ---> This could refer to how she's triple-tongued. It could also forshadow something in The Singing, that her Bardic truename is not what it appears.

Quickened in the womb of Light ---> First of all, this means that she was essentially made to be The One, was born to it, was crafted for it before she was born. Secondly, this means that she's an instrument for the Light.

Where the Briar on the Foam? ---> Briar would be the House of Karn, once again. The Foam...hmm. This could suggest the tip of the Wave (Light/Elidhu) or it could suggest something else entirely.

Doth the Lily stemless stand? ---> As in, does Maerad stand without support? (maybe?) Or maybe without help. It could also suggest something about her lacks a strong foundation.

Who will bring The Singing home? ---> Refers to the singing of the Treesong, I'm pretty sure. And adds a little excitement to the title of the fourth book, I'd say.

Where the Harp? ---> The lyre

Whose the hand? ---> Who plays the lyre. Something interesting is also Maerad's loss of fingers.




So, in case that was too long and boring to understand, I'll put a simple translation.


Maerad is born of the House of Karn

The House of Karn is of the Elidhu and/or the Light

Maerad has three tongues, three names, and three forms, and three parts to her power.

She will save the world.



The White Flame of Norloch and/or Enkir is true and false and cunning
Or
Maerad's heart is divided and confused.

Her name is not what it appears and/or is trisected.

She was formed by and for the Light.




Where is the House of Karn on the Light or the Elidhu?

Does Maerad stand alone, with no one to help?
Or
Does Maerad have a basis for what she's doing?

Who will unchain the Treesong?

Where is the Lyre? Who plays it?




But that's just my opinion.

[Sirkana]

I think that's the most obvious things we can take it to mean, yes...

[roberth]

My Turn-There will be spoilers for the Riddle, so stop reading if you havent read it, i cant mark each individual piece easily








True and false the cunning Flame=> This refers to Enkir, spreading his lies as the truth, and his misuse of his position to influence the citizens
Burning in the darkest Night=>Perhaps metaphoric...the darkening of the atmostphere as Enkirs lies grow, along with the fear in people
False and true the secret Name=> A hint at her Elidhu name, perhaps a reference to the Elidhu being beyond good and Evil, the wise kindred dude mentioned that she was a lair, as did Arkan
Quickened in the womb of Light=>Perhaps a ritual to uncover her Elidhu name

[Icelands]

To tell you the truth, my opinion is that the "Norloch poem" just basically states what we (mostly) know.

[Eledoch]

To tell you the truth, my opinion is that the "Norloch poem" just basically states what we (mostly) know.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Exactly... That's what's making it so hard to understand.

*Insert a quote of Iceland's HUGE post here (it'd take too much room to fully quote)*

:eek: Wow. Long. That's great, there's some stuff in there I really wouldn't have caught... e.g. Enkir, Maerad's heart is torn, Made for/by the Light... I agree. And yet, I don't. Does that make sense?

(My inner voice: no.)

*Insert DaniCarr's post, because me is too lazy to quote it ;)*

:rolleyes: I know what you mean.

[almost.famous]

I think "False and True the secret name" refers to her other name. not her usename or bardic truename. because, really, her truename isn't exactly a secret, is it? anyone who believes she is the one would know her truename.

And if the "womb of Light" part is literal, it could be implying something about her mother. I mean, obviously she was extremely important, but did she get that way through her own achievements or was it something destined or prophesied that helped her become so important.


those are just my oppinions.

[kiaga89]

Despite our love for the books of Pellinor, I believe you all should check out her poetry. This (http://www.poetryarchive.org/poetryarchive/singlePoet.do?poetId=128#) is where I listened to a few recordings of Alison reading her poetry for The Poetry Archive. Her website (http://www.alisoncroggon.com/poetry/) also has information.

Let us Pellinorites branch out! Read her poetry! It is amazing!:)

For those who have, what are your thoughts?

[JMlovesHP]

WOW...i just read most of her poems and they are great, but no offense, I like the books better...

This is soo cool, I am fially the first to reply to a forum...

[summer]

I bought a book of her poetry a while ago - Common Flesh - and I think her poetry is really cool. It's very different to her books in some ways, but quite similar in others.