[Zsinj16]

I have a question about the Balrog that Gandalf fought in the Mines of Moria in The Fellowship of the Ring.
Now I know that the Balrog is a demon. And, from what I remember, in both the FOTR novel and the FOTR movie, it said that the Balrog was released and infested the Mines of Moria because the dwarves had mined too deep.
Now here's my question:
Was the Balrog imprisoned deep under the Earth by the Valar Gods or did the dwarves mine so deep that they reached hell itself?

[Mithfânion]

Was the Balrog imprisoned deep under the Earth by the Valar Gods or did the dwarves mine so deep that they reached hell itself?

The Balrog was not imprisoned by the Valar. After the War of Wrath, the great war that concluded the war with Morgoth at the end of the First Age, one (probably just one) survived and fled. It fled to Moria, where it hid. What it did there is not known, why it was dormant etc. Certainly the digging of the Dwarves is mentioned as the reason for its re-awakening, but since we also know that in those days" Sauron summoned all things evil" it might have been Sauron's call that helped. He was said to gather all things evil to him.

Cheers

[wastra]

The Balrog is a Maia (sort of a lesser god r angelic creature), akin to Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron. They were spirits of fire who joined Morgoth in the early years and were among the more powerful inhabitants of Middle Earth. It is entirely possible tat other balrogs survived the war with Morgoth, but as tolkien later wrote, it is hard to imagine them going unnoticed for so long.

It is somewhat implied that the Balrog lay hidden, buried in the mines for centuries, and the Dwarves disturbed him from his sleep in their deep excavations. he then drove the dwarves from Moria and apparently slumbered again.

Since Sauron was the successor to the ower of Morgoth, the Balrog would have become somehwat of a vassal to him, so he probalby summoned it back to wakefulness again sometime just before the fellowship entered the mines, no doubt to use him as a general in the attack on Lorien (it may have been markedly different had a Balrog been facing Galadriel...it is doubtful she could have defeated him so soundly).

The Balrogs were very dangerous, and very powerful. Had one survived, the war of the ring could have been very different. Imagine the difference in the north had Smaug survived as well...a Balrog and a Dragon leading the forces of Sauron against Thranduil and Galadriel.

[Zsinj16]

Okay, I have one more question that relates to the Balrog. When Gandalf returned from the dead and became Gandalf the White, he said that when he was battling the Balrog deep beneath the Moria Mines, he encountered unspeakably dark, horrible, and terrifying creatures and beings down in the depths. Does anyone have any clue as to what these creatures were?

[kassimir funk]

Yes,

They were music industry executives. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[allanon]

Wastra, what is the destiny of the dragons?

[Mithfânion]

Allanon

No destiny for the dragons is known. They die and that's it. Or do you mean something else?

Zsinj

The beings that Gandalf mentions are never named, except that Gandalf tells us that there are beings there, so far under the Earth, that are older than even Sauron himself. This gives a great feel of menace to the place since Sauron himself is almost as old as Middle-earth itself.

[wastra]

No othre mention of them is ever made by Tolkien, but since they were older than Sauron, one can assume they are, perhaps, creations of Morgoth's disharmonious part to the great song in which the world was created- and even then, they would be far older only in that they may have been in Middle Earth longer.

Sauron, as a Maia, is older than the world, but it is possible that these creatures were there the moment the world was created, and that the Valar and Maia came to Ea later.

The next option is that they were other Maia or perhaps a 'echo' of the evil of Morgoth.


As for the dragons, Smaug was the greatest remaining dragon until Bard killed him (read "The Hobbit"). Dragons were hte creations of Morgoth, and would have served Sauron in his stead. We know very little about any other remaining dragons, but Tolkien did notthink them (apparently) to be a major factor after the battle in Dale.

[Mithfânion]

Sauron as a formless spirit is older than Middle-earth yes, but as an incarnate he's not.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Those Maias, who betrayed the light and Manve were called balrogs. The most powerful Maia, who betrayed Manve is Sauron, who's not Balrog.

[This message has been edited by Elan Morin Tedronai (edited April 03, 2002).]