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enazwo
March 15th, 2002, 05:40 PM
Okay folks, here's the deal. I posted a story awhile back, called "Dangerous Adventures Part 1" and it was about 50 or so pages. I had asked for some critical observations.
Erebus took the time out and the read the entire dreadful draft. He was totally straight up with me and gave me some remarkablly frank advice, as well as one other reader who lost interest after about 25 pages.
So, I have been obsessed with rewriting this story as I feel, or felt, it was worthy.
So to the point.
The possibility exists, that I am wasting my time and this story just is not interesting to anyone. Considering the amount of time I have expended on this, it would be an extraordinary waste. So I am losing perspective and feel it is possible that I maybe wasting my time. (Hope not).
So PLEASE if any of you kind, generous, and talented folk would read what i have extensively redone and give me some feed back. And do me the favor Erebus did and jsut be straight up and frank, if it is something I should drop.
Have great day folks and enjoy a delightful refreshments this weekend for me if you can.
Oh yeah his the link to the 6 chapters.
If I could afford to pay ya'll (not trailer trash, just drunk) for reading and critiquing I would.http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=652671 http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=652671

Bardos
March 15th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I would ask one very important question: Do YOU like your story, first of all?

Trust me, this is THE question. And, if the answer is "no", then, yes, you should drop it.

enazwo
March 15th, 2002, 10:51 PM
Personally? I freaking LOVE IT. But you see I am hopelessly, passionatelly, in love with everything that I have created. Including a couple of my own turds that looked like Elvis, or I thought they did.
Any way, objectivity is heck of looking glass to turn upon one's self.

Bardos
March 16th, 2002, 09:40 AM
Since you love it, you should, at least, give it a try! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

Nothing is wasted. Every line you write, you learn something about writing, if nothing else.

Ciuva
March 19th, 2002, 03:58 AM
I know your situation... I had written almost 200 pages, a whole story from beginning to end, and when I started going through it to see what could have been better, I saw that the whole story was crap. All of it. So I started at the beginning again...
But it did come something good out of it. I developed my characters further, I got more into the world I created, and I got lots of training in writing. It's of your mistakes you learn something.
I haven't read your story, but I just wanted to say that if it isn't good, it still isn't wasted. Then you know what to do better the next time. And if it is good, you've done good work.

Bardos
March 19th, 2002, 04:11 AM
Yep! I agree with Ciuva. I, too, have writen stories that, now, I think are crap. But they were surely worth the writting, b/c I enjoyed writing them and I learned something from each of them.

cassandra
March 20th, 2002, 01:37 PM
You asked so nice, I had to go on over and read your story for you. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
Here's what I think.
First of all, if you love the story, then yes, you should write it.
Secondly, every author who isn't Harlan Ellison (and maybe even him too) raises their head after months of hard work, looks back at what they've done, and thinks: this sucks. Hell, I do it after an hour and a half. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif Just think of your ultimate saving grace: revision.
And now on to the story. And I'm sad to say, I didn't make it through the first chapter.
Here's why: too much summary.
There's a device in writing called an "Infodump." And while there is no way around small Infodumps, having a huge chapter-long Infodump is about as much fun as reading your high school US History textbook. Because that's what summary is. Dry facts. Charaters are what, above all things, tie your readers to a story. If you don't get close to your characters, no matter how interesting the world is, we, the readers, don't care. We want to relate to the people.
My advice, for what it's worth, is to keep this beginning chapter for your reference, but to lose it completely and start out with active scenes and active people walking around and talking in them. If I've read the the whole first chapter and I don't know who the main character is, there's a serious problem. Small pieces of the background you've given can come out through storytelling.
For good beginning (as in the beginning of a story, not for beginners) advice, head on over to www.hatrack.com (http://www.hatrack.com,), and read Uncle Orson's (that is, Orson Scott Card's) Writing Class section. Very good info.
Hope that helped, and feel free to run another draft by me if you like, or ask me questions about what I said here.

[This message has been edited by cassandra (edited March 20, 2002).]

An8el
March 28th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I read the first page on the link. I think you have an 'outline' here, rather than a story yet. The difference is to relate the story as if happening in the now in front of you, as if you don't know what is happening yet. You can reveal parts of the "info dump" section by having a traveler/stranger who needs to know this information from one of the characters, so you can drop some of the info-dump comments as if they were gossip. For as the writer, you need to know alot of this information, but does the reader need to know it?

The part how the crown was pilfered was interesting, and it said quite a bit about that character. That was the part that first engaged my interest. I noticed that you slipped into real writing when you first described the potential queen.

I think it's a charming story, so far, for the outline that it seems to be. Remember that I'm reading all of this for the first time, so it's news to me. I don't think that what you present as "history" needs to be considered ancient - but why not start the story with that unexpected, bloody scene where the king is killed? Imagine you're each of the characters and pretend you can talk or think for them.

Time is another thing. Perhaps you have an idea of sequence when you tell a story, that each thing must be in its order of happening. If you read or hear people talk while thinking of time, you'll find that people often think of time as being fluid, not in sequence. For many, time is jumbled. People are remembering and making things happen at the same time. So that's a clue how you can take something that happened in the past and have it affect what is going on now. In a sense, all of the past is affecting now because people are remembering it as now is happening.

hope that helps some. I'll read more when I have more time again...

gabador
March 28th, 2002, 10:22 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed the first chapter, but for the time being, I have no time to read the rest. I even thought that the info dump was also readable, s long as you put yourself into that kind of a state. Is it true, all that stuff that you wrote? Or am I just acting the idiot. I mean up to the part where the story starts?
Well anyway, you have caaptured my imagination, and I will read on to see what is going to happen. Do not despair, for people have read Jules verne as well, and they liked him well enough. And he had 3/4 of his books full of info dumps. So don't give up on it, because I see some amazing writing skills. You just need to add a tad more action in.

enazwo
March 29th, 2002, 06:39 AM
Thanks so very much for your input cassandra,An8el and Gabador.
I truly value your input. It is quite helpful.

To answer Gabador's question about the begining of my info-dump (I prefer data-orgy) is true, prior to the actual story. Yes it is. I researched it quite thoroughly and if you'd care to investigate you will find all the names, dates, places are indeed factual.

I found that important to me to establish the world that my adventurers would inhabit.

It actually all came to me one night after swilling a plentitude of frothing tankards ale, feasting on many joints of sizzling beast and amorous activity with many a fun and lusty wench. And then I woke up.