[Leiali]

My point is, that I think that we cannot infer from the fact that Khellus asks Achamian for the Gnosis that he also wants to obtain it. He may be after the inner conflict that ensues by asking for the Gnosis. Or both.


Fascinating...I wonder though....The way he teaches and learns from Cnauir (can't spell it) I considered to be Kelhus attempting to get that inner conflict going - but I really thought that it was just Cnauir he was willing to risk this with. Any more and it would be a danger to his machinations. I take your point about Achamian ready to give up the Gnosis, but I would never have read into it that Kelhus deliberately sought the conflict - I just assumed that he wanted the greatest power available to man at his finger tips and was willing to destroy a friend to get it. I also thought that Achamian was as close as Kelhus was ever going to get to having a friend!

As I said, I found myself strangely partial towards Proyas in that one.

He certainly is one to watch, perhaps because his conflicts have been easier to understand, with a degree less exposure to Kelhus, and his tortured relationship with Achamian?

I think I need to re read the books before TTT, as I read the warrior prophet a few months ago, your insights have been really valuable Dawnstorm and I feel I want to go back and perhaps look at Serwe more sympathetically, and everything else more objectively!

[Dawnstorm]

I take your point about Achamian ready to give up the Gnosis, but I would never have read into it that Kelhus deliberately sought the conflict - I just assumed that he wanted the greatest power available to man at his finger tips and was willing to destroy a friend to get it. I also thought that Achamian was as close as Kelhus was ever going to get to having a friend!

I don't know what Khellus wants, I just don't think we can make inferences from what he says he wants, and I also think that the way he talks/acts is more consistent than what he wants. I'd say what he wants depends on the "probability trance", which in turn is dependant on the ever-changing constallations in the real world. Khellus can't "want" in the same way that we do, as our "wanting" is determined by the darkness. His transitory goals must be changing more rapidly than his behaviour; what's confusing me, though, is the presence of the "Mission"; this is what I can't quite make out. How can there be a transcendent want that determines which way the Logos bends?

Fascinating...I wonder though....The way he teaches and learns from Cnauir (can't spell it) I considered to be Kelhus attempting to get that inner conflict going - but I really thought that it was just Cnauir he was willing to risk this with.

Actually, that's a good question. Does creating inner conflict make the risk greater?

I'm beginning to wonder whether what Khellus wants (apart from the mission), isn't actually irrelevant. Whether Khellus wanted the Gnosis, or whether he wanted the conflict, the conflict is there. I'm sure Khellus is aware of it. See, the Gnosis, the conflict... they'll all have to enter into the probability trance to show the "shortest path". And since they're not the ultimate goal their desirability will have to rise and fall like ripples in a brook...

The difference between Cnaiür's and Achamian's inner conflict seemst to be that with Achamian Khellus feels in control, whereas Cnaiür's reactions never really follow the intended path for long. That's why he calls him mad. (And I think Cnaiür's contaminating Khellus; see how Khellus failed to kill him, twice, telling himself he's got further uses for him. I suspect Cnaiür irks Khellus. ;) )

[Leiali]

The difference between Cnaiür's and Achamian's inner conflict seemst to be that with Achamian Khellus feels in control, whereas Cnaiür's reactions never really follow the intended path for long. That's why he calls him mad. (And I think Cnaiür's contaminating Khellus; see how Khellus failed to kill him, twice, telling himself he's got further uses for him. I suspect Cnaiür irks Khellus).

I appreciate your comments, but though Kelhus seems to think he is in control of Achamian, I would argue that Achamian representing something not quite so alien to us as Cnaiur may challenge Kelhus in a way not explored yet, and that this might be part of the final reckoning. I hope anyway. And yes, I do agree, Cnaiur does irk Kelhus!!

[Dawnstorm]

I appreciate your comments, but though Kelhus seems to think he is in control of Achamian, I would argue that Achamian representing something not quite so alien to us as Cnaiur may challenge Kelhus in a way not explored yet, and that this might be part of the final reckoning.

Yeah, it's interesting how that'll play out. :)

Hah, I know, they'll fail to prevent the second apocalypse and everyone dies, leaving us frustrated with lots of questions. :p

[Leiali]

Yeah, it's interesting how that'll play out. :)

Hah, I know, they'll fail to prevent the second apocalypse and everyone dies, leaving us frustrated with lots of questions. :p


I'd say hush, don't give Scott ideas but he's already finished writing it and some sffworlders have already read it...(I'm green!!!). I just wonder if Serwe is going to play a major part in this final book; Esmenet is going to find her inner Lilith; Achamian is going to kick some superman ass; and Kelhus is going to have his puppeteer strings pulled from his grasp by his father. Can't wait.

[Dawnstorm]

How about this?

Möenghus is dead; the Cishaurim are playing Khellus.

Hehe...

[Sean Wright]

Hi Scott,

Not sure if you are aware of a cracking review of Warrior Prophet in the British Science Fiction Association's bi-monthly critical magazine, VECTOR? Estelle Robert's says: "It is extremely well written, highly intelligent, and complex..." I guess the review comes in at around 350-400 words, taking up half a page of the A4 format, which includes a pic of the book cover.

Most impressive, is that out of the 60 books reviewed, contaning some BIG hitters, such as Charlie Stross, Sean Russell, Arthur C Clarke, Iain Banks, Stephen Baxter, Terry Brooks, Steven Erikson, Raymond Feist, Richard Matheson, Robert J Sawyer, Gene Wolf, and more, your book is just one of four RECOMMENDED READS. Well done, the BSFA critics are notoriously hard to please.

Hope this is news to you, and has made your Xmas!

[Mathain]

Hi Scott,

Not sure if you are aware of a cracking review of Warrior Prophet in the British Science Fiction Association's bi-monthly critical magazine, VECTOR? Estelle Robert's says: "It is extremely well written, highly intelligent, and complex..." I guess the review comes in at around 350-400 words, taking up half a page of the A4 format, which includes a pic of the book cover.

Most impressive, is that out of the 60 books reviewed, contaning some BIG hitters, such as Charlie Stross, Sean Russell, Arthur C Clarke, Iain Banks, Stephen Baxter, Terry Brooks, Steven Erikson, Raymond Feist, Richard Matheson, Robert J Sawyer, Gene Wolf, and more, your book is just one of four RECOMMENDED READS. Well done, the BSFA critics are notoriously hard to please.

Hope this is news to you, and has made your Xmas!

I'm looking forward to seeing what VECTOR becomes when Niall Harrison (who is developing into a very good critic) and his co-editor take over.

Shoudl we play "Guess the other three RECOMMENDED"? I'm going to say... Stross, Wolfe and Erikson.

But some of us have known that Scott's a bang-up arse-kicking writer for a long time now. :)

[Sean Wright]

Nope, but good guess, M. Kelly Link's Magic For beginners (reviewed by Niall - 80% of the page! A. Lee Martinez's Gil's All Fright Diner (reviewed by Dave Roberts), and ta da! Drum roll, if you will... Paul McAuley's Mind's Eye.

Other notable names I've spotted in this edition of Vector: Orson Scott Card, Stephen Gallagher, Steph Swanston, Dan Simmons, Hal Duncan (two reviews! Both very mixed ,with Paul Kincaid ending his..."Maybe it will all make sense (in volume two) but at the moment this is extraordinarily entertain nonsense.") Ouch! :eek:

Must say, I'm dipping an and out of Vellum, and despite a cracking opening few p[ages, it seems very unstructured and tossed together. Perhaps that's exactly what Al aimed for? He's a bright lad.

[Scott Bakker]

Very cool, Sean. How could I get my grubby little hands on that puppy? (Suddenly, between this and the PW review, I'm feeling really greedy... WTF is up with that? I hope I'm not the only person who gets that way.) With a name like BSFA they should be hard to please.

I met Hal at the WFC, and it was hard to tell who was more drunk. I figure I drank at least twice as much as him, but then I am, like, five to twenty times his size. Very cool guy.