[Larry]

Scott, it's rather simple now:

Instead of asking Overlook/Penguin/Orbit to sponsor booksigning tours, we fans need to organize and raise up money to sponsor a drinking tour! Although my preferred drink is a Cuba Libre or just straight Captain's chilled on the rocks ;)

Sound like a fun thing to do? :p

[Jack]

I'd say hush, don't give Scott ideas but he's already finished writing it and some sffworlders have already read it...(I'm green!!!). I just wonder if Serwe is going to play a major part in this final book; Esmenet is going to find her inner Lilith; Achamian is going to kick some superman ass; and Kelhus is going to have his puppeteer strings pulled from his grasp by his father. Can't wait.

Hey! You guys hijacked my thread! No fair!

Just kidding. I loved the back and forth between Lei and Dawnstorm, made for some great reading at work (I just stumbled back upon this thread today!). Now I am teetering on the brink of mustreadnowism for TTT. I hope the February Fantasy BC book is a short one, so I can squeeze both that and TTT into January.

[glaz]

just finished TWP.

i admit, im a romantic and idealist. i love happy endings, and honestly, i didn't feel any elations the whole way.

on the other hand, this is such a great book. it just tackles the character's own thinking and reflections throughout and definitely did a great job.

firstly, this book made me like akka even more. he was so happy with esmi, but near the end he was so devastated. angry, yes, but he exudes being "crumpled" and devastated more than anger.

when he returned to esmi, he thought that everything would be as they were. in fact, they weren't, and... put yourself in his position. what would you do? what would you feel? i just feel for this character...

kellhus just never ceases to amaze. so "inhumane" yet so interesting. he didn't even touch up on akka's arguments while he was tied up. he just said, "i see them.." and poof.

[AuntiePam]

When Scott said Serwe is the "heart of the book", could he have meant "heart" as someone with a loving, innocent spirit, rather than "heart" as the center, or focus?

That's how I took it. I'm only about halfway through TWP, but if Serwe is a focal point, then I'm missing something.

[KatG]

Well, I'm about two thirds through, and I have a question: did Esme sell her daughter and then the daughter died from it, or did she just sell her and then thought of her as dead? Because it was a little unclear in the text, perhaps deliberately or perhaps I just wasn't reading closely enough. In any case, it definitely pulled Esme's character altogether for me -- the tremendous guilt she carried that she feels Kelhaus frees her from, burns away her past. That, and her wanting to be part of something bigger and important that is central to her character and a large part of why she loved Akka. When he's taken from her and probably dead, Kelhaus offers her a way out from torment, by becoming part of what he is, by becoming a mother again, but this time a mother of gods.

This is basically how Kelhaus gets them -- that he is better, noble, and important -- a great leader, a prophet, a divine being -- and that through him, their flaws and crimes become strengths or unimportant (forgiveness,) and they become part of what he is and better, nobler, more important beings (holy glory.) It's a central tenant to religions. Conphas is more difficult for him to read/get to because Conphas already sees himself as better, super important, etc., and doesn't need anyone else to confirm this view. That doesn't mean Kelhaus can't manipulate him though, although he seems to concentrate his efforts on the superstitious Martemus. Cnaiur is difficult because he knows how the seduction works and because his violent madness makes him not necessarily want what your average person wants and so less predictable. So instead, Kelhaus sets out to break Cnaiur with Serwe.

I would imagine that Serwe is the heart of the book because she is Kelhaus' most effective tool and symbol. He uses her to subjegate Akka, Esme, various men, to break Cnaiur -- at least temporarily -- and to begin to establish his dynasty. But that's a guess -- Scott would have to weigh in on what he meant exactly.

A female Dunyain -- and yes, I'm guessing women are seen as vulnerable tools in the Dunyain camp -- would have a harder time of it. In Scott's world, when a man falls for a woman, he wants to possess her, have her submit, surrender herself to him and totally belong to him. When he loves a man, though, he surrenders himself to that man as father, brother, son, leader, guide, to be loyal and dedicated to that man and be part of his glory, goodness and promise. A female Dunyain would therefore not be able to do the trick. She could read people and shape things, but she couldn't lead as easily. But as an adjunct -- as the divine feminine coupled with the male -- she could be pretty powerful, as Serwe and Esme are useful in that way. So a couple of Dunyain might be interesting.

I'm enjoying this book, but I do miss the verbal battles between Cnaiur and Kelhaus, and I miss the Emperor, who's barely in TWP. The Consult are also seeming a tad wimpy. They're waiting for their moment and I'll be curious to see the end of this tale, but the big deal here is troop movements. Scott does those well, but for me, it gets a bit wearying at times. I liked Kelhaus' panic in the early parts of the book -- it made me much more engaged in his character to see how he would overcome the unexpected challenges.

What is rather astonishing about this whole series is that there is not one heroic character in it. All the characters are nasty. Xin came closest, but now he's blind and bitter. And if he were still Grand Marshall, I suspect he wouldn't have minded killing off all the camp followers so as to cross the desert. I don't think I've ever seen that in a fantasy story before -- where everybody is essentially a bad guy. It's a really interesting approach.

[Dawnstorm]

You're two thirds through? The best part's before you! :D

(I'm saying that because your take looks pretty compatible with mine, and I thought the last third was brilliant!)

One of the most powerful sections in the first 2/3 to me was the detached exposition part about the desert. I loved that. Setting as character.

[KatG]

You're right, the last third was a lot of fun. And Serwe's dead, Serwe's dead! Is it wrong to go "yay!"? I did think that Akka getting into the besieged fortress city was a little too easy, but his storyline was great.

[Evil Agent]

And Serwe's dead, Serwe's dead! Is it wrong to go "yay!"? I admit I felt the same way. I think I actually jumped out of my chair, and 'whooped' with joy! Then I felt ashamed, and started thinking about how wrong it was that I felt joy at her death... but the joy was undeniable! :D

[KatG]

Now, can anyone explain the Holy War's battle tactics to me? Because they made less and less sense to me as they went on.

[KatG]

Okay, so nobody's going to help me out here? Because I'm sure I missed some details. Why does the Holy War march into the desert when the cities they are after are basically on the coast? Why did they initially take all the camp followers with them on a desert foray? Why did they hole up all their forces in the walled city once they took it, letting themselves get bottled up there under siege? (Of course, by then their command structure had fallen apart.)

I've decided that my favorite scene in the book is Kelhaus in the sort of cellar area, fighting off the Consult. That was definitely a gripping hand to hand combat scene. What about everybody else?