[mind-cleared]

hey all.
my first post in this website.
and it's a negative one.
i've read phantom and i've come to the conclusion that the sagas in fantasy are in terminal danger of soap bubbles.
soap, cheesy, oily, smug ... (does smug fits with the previous 3 words ?).

what can I say, in this book richard is a scientist.
he talks about mathematics, phisics, biology, linguistics, symbology ...
all this from a guy whose main career involved trees and open spaces.
and a sword.

ok.
to the review.
if you've read the first 9 books, then this one is actually the real number 8.
pillars and naked were just irrelevant to anything in the sot series.

in this book richard loses his gift, again.
he is captured, again.
and still can't use his magic.
although with a promise of change in this theme, finally.

add to this, the sisters of the dark having put the boxes of orden in play but during the book lose almost half a year without progress on this.

the last book will be messy.
in short, terry returns to the form of the first 3 books, but ruins it with speeches that go on and on and on...
he goes away from adventure and epic into mindless drones about "every angle why we should understand his point that good is not this, but that"...

ohhhh, the speeches didn't end.
the book did, thank god.

[Capt_Zimmer]

I guess I've come to the conclusion that you simply want to piss off and whine
about the book/series.

So, why are you bothering to read them if this is the way you feel? Do you enjoy poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick?

owie it hurts, wow let me do it again, BUT this time I'm going to spend my hard earned money to do it!:rolleyes:

[sic's mom]

Ok, this is what I don't get. If you hate a series, which it seems like you really dont like SOT then why do you read it? I don't know about you but my time is too valuable to waste reading books I really don't like. If it is only so you can knock the book and author, I am sorry for you. Read something you will enjoy instead. You had to have either bought the book or taken time to go to the library and borrow it. Next time save yourself some time and money and read something you will enjoy.

[Evil Agent]

Let's give the guy a break. He's not just bashing the book, he's explaining why he didn't like it. Obviously (like many Goodkind fans) he started out with the series a long time ago, thought it was pretty cool, and kept reading. Then he started to notice the books getting worse and worse, but like many people, he's addicted to knowing the ending, and is vainly hoping that it might get better. The guy is entitled to read the book if he wants, and voice his disappointment if he wants.

Goodkind fans are SO defensive, because (like some Jordan fans) they are largely clinging to their denial that SOT has gone seriously downhill and become a vehicle for Goodkind to (poorly) express and preach his half-baked philosophical ideas.

I quit reading the series after book 5, so don't worry, I won't bash the new one. But I think you're all over-reacting to mind-cleared's post.

[Capt_Zimmer]

Sorry Evil, again you not only are wrong but have obviously not read what CM so stated....

Lets review...

He said nothing about when he started the series...

He said nothing about thinking it "was pretty cool".

He did however start out with using ridiculous words that have no vague meaning to the actual point he's making.

He then goes on to some kind of point that Richard should have no clue as to math, science or anything of any kind of learning. Lest you et al, forget Richard was taught not only by George Cypher, a well traveled explorer and tradesman, but his Grandfather Zedd (First Wizard) as well as obviously Chase...
So we have a logical progression of teachers that Richard has gained a great deal of knowledge from as he was growing up... Yet CM, seems to over look all this in a week attempt at demeaning Richard in his abilities. wow!

SO then, he somehow is under the delusion that POC and NE had nothing to do with anything, clearly he hasn't minded what is actually written in the books or he would clearly see that the current story line couldn't be happening with out those two books....

and then CM, goes into a diatribe about the boxes being put into play and somehow wasn't clear minded enough to understand that much has happened. One simply doesn't go from one end of the world to the other side in a matter of....what days? sorry Clearly minded clearly shows he isn't paying attention to the series of events, nor has he been minding the progression of events that led the sisters to be forced to split up, and one of the sisters to be attacked, the rest to be captured... hmmm..... One wonders what this child has been reading? Clearly not the Sword of Truth Series....

So at last we see CM carefully over looking the reason for the series... the important information contained within Richards explanations. Clearly a marvel of understatement minding not what is actually written but only seeing what he wants thinks he should see... I can see how Wizards First Rule fits so clearly...

So you then call Goodkind fan's "defensive", I rather think they are not defensive, but rather amused at such people who fail to read the whole book and just skim it. I find Goodkind fan's helpful in offering up points were people have failed to see what context the book offers and more so, pointing out to people that they forgot to add things to their thoughts....

Case in point, Goodkind doesn't write fantasy, when he stated "I don't write fantasy...in the essential sense of the word. I am writing about...." People always want to lop off that last essential part of his comment, so they can twist his words into what they want people to see and not the truth of what he said and what he meant.

Evil, I also love how you try to make the series look like it has been going down hill, yet the books sales have been climbing ever higher out selling each book before...and Phantom debuts at # on every best seller list out there. In fact Phantom in now in its third week, and according to Tor, is in its third printing because al the book stored have been selling out.

So I clearly mind your opinion of incorrect information and simply point out that to tell this poor lad to stop wasting his money and wasting his valuable time is spot on...Clearly....

[Rob B]

Why is it in the Terry Goodkind forum, more than any other, that we here at sffworld have to come in and ask everyone to play nice? Especially when the people involved are newer members?

[Evil Agent]

LOL.. I'm sorry Captain Zimmer. I didn't mean to offend a member with a whole "2 posts". I was just saying that the original poster was definitely not trolling, or mindlessly bashing Goodkind. We've seen that before, and this was not it. It wasn't nearly funny or entertaining enough.

Anyway, since when do book sales mean a series is good?

[mind-cleared]

1) I have read the whole series so far.
2) I own the first 8 books.
3) I liked the first 3 books, a little less the later 3 books, and not at all books 7 & 8.
4) I am now 30 years old.

I started reading the series when I was 20, and I can't coonect to it now when i'm 30, the way I used to when I was 20.

from book 4 he has made a number of contradictions in the stories that simply bother me.
a point that I mentioned is richard's scientific explanation in this book (I borrowed books 9 and 10 and read them, I do not own them), it's simply silly.
what can I say, I don't like the series anymore.
I will finish it, cause I earned it, with a lot of gritting my teeth.

cap. zimmer, I hope it's ok with you.

[Capt_Zimmer]

1) I have read the whole series so far.
2) I own the first 8 books.
3) I liked the first 3 books, a little less the later 3 books, and not at all books 7 & 8.
4) I am now 30 years old.

I started reading the series when I was 20, and I can't coonect to it now when i'm 30, the way I used to when I was 20.

from book 4 he has made a number of contradictions in the stories that simply bother me.
a point that I mentioned is richard's scientific explanation in this book (I borrowed books 9 and 10 and read them, I do not own them), it's simply silly.
what can I say, I don't like the series anymore.
I will finish it, cause I earned it, with a lot of gritting my teeth.

cap. zimmer, I hope it's ok with you.

Your life is your alone, you control what you choose to read and what you choose to like or not like. Although when you continue to insist you dislike something then keep doing it, that person seems to lose creditability. I'm not slamming you, nor am I attacking you, I simply sit back and ask the hard questions.


No prob from me SM, if you want to grind your teeth down to the gums, it's your choice. However I think that, to many people, offering up nothing bemoaning posts of how dismal you think it to be, is going to disqualify your posts/point from any reasonable person. But hey, if you want to continue to poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick, who am I to stop you.

As to your "from book 4 he has made a number of contradictions in the stories", sorry but contradictions do not exist. You will not find any contradictions within any of the books. Now, you may have misconstrued something, or like a few people, taken several things out of context, but I assure you no such contradictions exist.

So then, as to your "a point that I mentioned is Richard’s scientific explanation",
I fail to understand... You don't like science? Or you don't like that Richard actually has abilities other than his magic? Like I said, Richard had some great teachers growing up. It only stands to reason that he would be well learned in all aspects of science and math. Especially seeing as how Magic in this world involves both.

I can only say that to say "I will finish it, cause I earned it, with a lot of gritting my teeth" is like saying Damn, that gallon of milk is spoiled and sour...in fact it stinks... but damn it all, I paid good money for it and by God I'm going to drink it!:p

Sorry just sounds a bit silly to me.

One interesting point though about book 4 FOTF. It is the most sold of any of Goodkind's books. It has out sold all the rest by three to one, with the exception of Chainfire and now Phantom. Right out Phantom debuts at #1 and three weeks out Phantom is now in its third printing as it is selling out everywhere. I think that is a telling point in how good Phantom is and is being received. Oh one last thing, in any poll on the web by readers, FOTF is ranked the best book of the series....just an FYI :D

[Rob B]

Your life is your alone, you control what you choose to read and what you choose to like or not like. Although when you continue to insist you dislike something then keep doing it, that person seems to lose creditability. I'm not slamming you, nor am I attacking you, I simply sit back and ask the hard questions.Perhaps mind-cleared is hoping to find some of what he enjoyed in the ealier books


No prob from me SM, if you want to grind your teeth down to the gums, it's your choice. However I think that, to many people, offering up nothing bemoaning posts of how dismal you think it to be, is going to disqualify your posts/point from any reasonable person. But hey, if you want to continue to poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick, who am I to stop you.

As to your "from book 4 he has made a number of contradictions in the stories", sorry but contradictions do not exist. You will not find any contradictions within any of the books. Now, you may have misconstrued something, or like a few people, taken several things out of context, but I assure you no such contradictions exist.

So then, as to your "a point that I mentioned is Richard’s scientific explanation",
I fail to understand... You don't like science? Or you don't like that Richard actually has abilities other than his magic? Like I said, Richard had some great teachers growing up. It only stands to reason that he would be well learned in all aspects of science and math. Especially seeing as how Magic in this world involves both.

I can only say that to say "I will finish it, cause I earned it, with a lot of gritting my teeth" is like saying Damn, that gallon of milk is spoiled and sour...in fact it stinks... but damn it all, I paid good money for it and by God I'm going to drink it!:p

Sorry just sounds a bit silly to me.

One interesting point though about book 4 FOTF. It is the most sold of any of Goodkind's books. It has out sold all the rest by three to one, with the exception of Chainfire and now Phantom. Right out Phantom debuts at #1 and three weeks out Phantom is now in its third printing as it is selling out everywhere. I think that is a telling point in how good Phantom is and is being received. Oh one last thing, in any poll on the web by readers, FOTF is ranked the best book of the series....just an FYI :D
Attacking a person's argument is one thing, attacking the person is something different - something we don't tolerate here at SFFW.

...and to reiterate Evil Agent's - since when do sales equate quality?