[Cshawns]

oh! thats harsh.
here i'll give u what u need...

[Cshawns]

A novel should be written in these guidelines

Double spaced
Courier New size 12 font

Each sentence should end with 2 spaces, not 1.

no messing wtih any of the formatting or anything, no 'justification' etc.

Every scene change should not end with a blank line but a single (double spaced) line containing a centered “#”

every paragraph should start with 5 blank spaces, not a 'Tab'

every page should have a header that looks like this
Real Last Name / TITLE IN CAPS / page number
if you want to use a fake name, put that on your title page in your ‘by line’

every new chapter should be on a new page and start with the chapter number about halfway down the page.

any words you want to be in ITALICS in your finished product must simply be UNDERLINED

the way editors and publishers count words is not with single words. What they do is use this format to count. This format give you 25 lines per page. 10 words per line. So 250 words per page. And they count every page even the pages that start halfway down. The last page of chapters that end about halfway down the page are considered 125 words.
the number gets rounded to the nearest 1000, and goes on the title page of the manuscript. Make sure you do that.

all this formatting will make it so the editors and publishers don’t throw it away at first look.


that’s all u gotta know.
Peace!

[Holbrook]

Maybe I am being pedantic here, but while what you say, Cshawns, is the basic, it is not that’s all u gotta know

I can't stress hard enough to any want to be writer to CHECK the agents/publishers, you are submitting to, own submission guidelines, these might differ slightly from the above.

It is a matter of "when in Rome" with submissions, especially email ones, as often these are requested in RTF and a different spacing.

Also you can set the first tab on word for five spaces, if you can't do that :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You also forgot to mention the following;

You should not split a paragraph over the end of a page. Start each new page with a fresh one.

Some publishers prefer the page number centred at the bottom, so again check the agents/publishers guidelines.

When submitting in hard copy don't send double sided printed, one page per page single sided. Also some publishers state the weight of paper and don't like photocopies. Do not staple, bind or hole punch your manuscript, just a rubber band to hold it together.

[KatG]

Again, I have to stress that editors and agents are not quite as hung up on formatting of the manuscript as they may seem to be. They tell people they are, and it's a good idea to have the basics down, but if your margins are not perfectly one inch, etc., it's not an issue. That split paragraph thing too, that must be a British thing, Holbrook.

There are not a lot of standardized ms. formatting practices beyond having your ms. typed and double-spaced. They do prefer the ms. isn't bound in any way, because it's probably going to need to be copied, and it's easier to do that if it's loose. A stationary box to keep it in, with a lid for the read pages, is nice, especially on a big ms. (That was always my favorite anyway.) If you're submitting to someone, you have to check what their requirements are, because they may be different. When in doubt, ask. When you can't get the information, don't worry about it.

The publishers' word count you mention, Cshawns, is a quick way of getting a rough word count, by assuming an average page word count of 250 words. It is not the method a publisher's production department uses to format the ms. into an actual book. It is a way an author can estimate word count, but it's just as easy these days to use the Word Count function on your average word processing program to get a pretty accurate count.

Opt already knows how many words Opt has in the ms. and can estimate from there. The question is, is a 300,000+ word ms. for the first book in a series workable. And the answer is, as always, maybe.

[Cshawns]

I like u KatG
u seem so wise!

but im under the impression that the format of courier new-double space etc. being used for word count is quite important because it gives the publisher a good look at how many pages the MS will be in whatever font they choose, adn whatever size they want, and margin etc.

you probably know better than I. But I know this is the way I will always be writing... for sake of simplicity and quick estimates.

[NOM]

For what it's worth, I submit my work on a very simple Word template in times new roman 12 point, double spaced. No one seems to mind. And the Word word-count feature is good enough for them as it is a reasonable estimate.

Like KatG, I wouldn't get too hung up if I were you. It is always good, as Holbrook says, to check submission guidelines and many sound points are made in that post (no crap photocopies, no staples, no double side printing for starters). But in the end, if it is easily legible and can be edited on page without obscuring the text, that'll probably be just fine.

Never worried about that paragraph thing... I think Word does that automatically anyway. I really must go and check :)

NOM

[KatG]

As we've brought up before, publishers don't rely on authors for accurate word counts of manuscripts or for any aspect of production usually. In fact, there are often contract clauses that forbid the author from being involved in production. The number of pages in a manuscript is irrelevant, as is the font that is used for a manuscript. Courier is generally the preferred font for manuscripts because it is large and widely spaced and thus easier to read.

Right now, my ms. is in Time New Roman. If I switch it all to Courier, the ms. will have a lot more pages. A printed text, however, will have many fewer pages because it is usually smaller than 12-point Courier or Times New Roman. There are numerous ways publishers can set up a printed text that effect the number of pages, which is why different editions of the same novel will have different page lengths. The only number that counts is word count, and all the author has to do there is give the editor or agent a reasonable estimate. The publisher may do their own estimates of the word count of a submission, rough or more precise, separate from whatever the author tells them, but on a submission, they are unlikely to bother unless they are seriously considering a project.

So use Courier if that makes you comfortable -- it's the most common type used. Use wide margins and true double-spacing, so they can write in the white spaces and read it easily. Don't bind the ms. so that it can be copied easily. Find out what other particular requirements they have for submissions. And you might as well be honest about the word count, which your handy-dandy computer can give you.

[Optimutt]

The first draft came out to be about 2/3rds the size I expected it would: about 210,000 words long. Shifted to Double-spaced 12 point Times New Roman font, it's about 620 pages long (I think. I haven't actually shifted it since completing the draft).

[Tony Williams]

I read on another site recently that the typical new SF novel is in the range 80,000-120,000 words - that's apparently the easiest to sell to publishers.

I also have to admit to a personal preference for novels of this kind of length over the massive doorstops. I think it is very difficult to write a very long novel without either introducing so many characters and/or events that it becomes confusing, or focusing on so much detail that the action slows right down. On the other hand, perhaps I've just got a short attention span :)

[jallenw]

At least you have the butter-side up part of the dilema. Some writers can't write a book long enough. It's easier to cut parts out that it is to go back and try to write more or make scenes longer in my opinion. My first novel is 78,000 words (unpublished) and my second is 108,000 words(published 278 page paperback). I believe that the shorter one needs about 20k more words added in the next edit before I even begin to be happy with it. I think the longer one is nearly perfect, but the rough draft was around 114,000 words.

My advice, write as much as you can every day until the story is finished, then if the work is too long you can always go into samurai mode. If you have a hard time deciding what to cut out then try joining a writing circle or writer's club. You can trade copies with the other writers and cut parts out of their books. It's easier to deface someone elses property than it is your own. Then you swap back and look at their suggestions at what they would take out. This developes your editing skills and makes friends at the same time.

IN FACT... You can probably get someone on these forums to read it and tell you which sections seem the weakest and need to be removed or shortened.