[Hereford Eye]

In her course on Classical Mythology, Prof Elizabeth Vandiver of Whitman College and The Teaching Company, first establishes a definition for mythology as “traditional stories that a society tells itself that encode or represent the world-view, beliefs, principles, and often fears of that society.” She postulates that “all cultures have myths; however, identifying and analyzing these myths from within a culture can be very difficult.”
She concludes her course by attempting to decipher mythical threads in the current U.S. culture. She asserts that where classical cultures looked to their past for explanation of their world view; the U.S. culture looks to its future. She doesn’t say it but I suspect that is true for all English speaking cultures and, perhaps, many other non-English speaking Western cultures; maybe even a few Eastern. Where the Greeks and Romans placed their monsters at the eastern and western edges of their worlds, we place ours in the future. They had monsters; we have aliens. We know too much about our history to know there never was a golden age, she says, so, look at the continuing popularity of the Star Wars franchise, future heroes struggling with future aliens that often represent a future golden age. She believes this mythology only plays itself out on TV and in the movies.
Thinking about her conjecture, the idea makes some sense to me. It explains the continuing popularity of sff because these are the fields where we can examine our world-view, beliefs, principles, and fears. I think that Vandiver’s confinement of the myth to TV and movies is a mistake. I think that sff novels provide the same function. We like them because they resonate with something we deeply believe or want to believe in. It’s why we become so fanatical over our likes and dislikes.
That’s a point; there must be a counter-point.

[Ropie]

Thinking about her conjecture, the idea makes some sense to me. It explains the continuing popularity of sff because these are the fields where we can examine our world-view, beliefs, principles, and fears.
I think this is a fairly well accepted view of any story. The difference with SFF is that it is usually set out of a familiar context, which serves to enhance certain elements.

I don't think the juxtapositon of SF and myths is a good one though. Surely a myth is something that has already happened - most SF is set in the future (albeit from a relative viewpoint in the case of older SF stories) so cannot already have happened. Maybe SF stories will one day become the myths of the US though.

[Randy M.]

I think this is a fairly well accepted view of any story. The difference with SFF is that it is usually set out of a familiar context, which serves to enhance certain elements.

I don't think the juxtapositon of SF and myths is a good one though. Surely a myth is something that has already happened - most SF is set in the future (albeit from a relative viewpoint in the case of older SF stories) so cannot already have happened. Maybe SF stories will one day become the myths of the US though.
But that's not an absolute. I've heard good arguments that Cordwainer Smith was writing the myths of the future, and I think the tone of stories like "The Ballad of Lost C'mell" uphold the view.


Randy M.

[Ropie]

But that's not an absolute. I've heard good arguments that Cordwainer Smith was writing the myths of the future, and I think the tone of stories like "The Ballad of Lost C'mell" uphold the view.
They have mythical qualities, as do The Martian Chronicles, but they are not yet by any definition myths. And it is likely that most of these stories will be forgotten or prove too slight to become myths.

[Mugwump]

I agree with Ropie. Science fiction movies deploy the tropes of mythology (the ‘Heroes quest’ and so forth) to deal with (often quite sophisticated) philosophical, moral and ethical issues - but this does not make them myths.

A myth requires some element of belief. No one (barring the odd crackpot) believes there is an all-powerful Force permeating the galaxy that allows its psychic wielder to move rocks, bend steel and leap tall buildings in a single bound. Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, The Matrix - these are not mythologies.

The Blair Witch Project, on the other hand, clearly is mythological. There are many people who consider some or all of its elements to be truth.

I haven’t noticed any trend toward projecting America’s neurosis onto the future. If anything I’d say American cinema is often more concerned with the past (WWII, Vietnam, 9/11).

[Hereford Eye]

A myth requires some element of belief. No one (barring the odd crackpot) believes there is an all-powerful Force permeating the galaxy that allows its psychic wielder to move rocks, bend steel and leap tall buildings in a single bound.
In the working definition, belief is just one aspect of myth. Letting that go, I submit that string theory fits the definition of myth in all aspects, including belief.
I also submit that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, The Matrix, as well as The Blair Witch Project represent stories that our society tells itself that encode or represent our world-view, beliefs, principles, and fears. Given that there is so much we don't know and even more that we don't understand, it is not surprising we should develop myths to tackle the problem.
Finally, I submit into evidence, for whatever it might be worth, the subtitles of many of Mike Resnick's stories: a myth of the far future.
The point is not whether myth is a good thing or bad thing. The point is that societies need ways to address the issues of the day. We do that in the far future where the role of tremendous good and tremendous evil is more often than not portrayed by aliens. Inter-stellar travel is a myth; intra- and inter-galactic travel is a bigger myth; magic in fantasy is a myth; and a united humanity may be the biggest myth of all, but they are myths we are willing to subscribe to.

[Ropie]

I also submit that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, The Matrix, as well as The Blair Witch Project represent stories that our society tells itself that encode or represent our world-view, beliefs, principles, and fears.
I still say this is true of almost any story - from simple childrens' books to the great classics of literature. Is not a unique facet of science fiction or fantasy and doesn't define a myth. This is one of the things at the root of all story telling.

[Mugwump]

In the working definition, belief is just one aspect of myth. Letting that go, I submit that string theory fits the definition of myth in all aspects, including belief.

Myths are widely believed and false. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. String theory has not been proved false - therefore it isn’t a myth.

I also submit that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, The Matrix, as well as The Blair Witch Project represent stories that our society tells itself that encode or represent our world-view, beliefs, principles, and fears. Given that there is so much we don't know and even more that we don't understand, it is not surprising we should develop myths to tackle the problem.

I understand what you are getting at, but again – Star Wars (whilst containing mythical devices) is not a mythical story. You can’t just ‘let belief go’ – it’s one of the primary requisites for myth. I agree that there’s a fuzzy line of division between a bunch of crackpots thinking they’re Jedi Knights and a considerable portion of the population wrongly believing certain elements of The Blair Witch Project are true – but that line of division exists and cannot be denied.

The point is not whether myth is a good thing or bad thing. The point is that societies need ways to address the issues of the day. We do that in the far future where the role of tremendous good and tremendous evil is more often than not portrayed by aliens.

The original post claimed that American cinema and television looks more to the future, rather than the past or the present, to address the issues of today. I don’t live in America, but I do watch many American movies and TV shows. I do not detect any significant trend toward objectifying America’s cultural and societal issues in futuristic art. House, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The West Wing, Fight Club, American Beauty etc. etc. – all very popular forms of visual art dealing with important concerns – none of which are set in the future. I’d like to see the statistical data that validates Prof Elizabeth Vandiver’s argument.

Inter-stellar travel is a myth; intra- and inter-galactic travel is a bigger myth; magic in fantasy is a myth; and a united humanity may be the biggest myth of all, but they are myths we are willing to subscribe to.

Neither inter-stellar travel nor inter-galactic travel can be categorised as myths. No scientist worth his salt would ever disqualify either. Inter-stellar travel presents enormous scientific, engineering and human difficulties – but it is not impossible. Inter-galactic travel presents even more problems, but it is perfectly possible.

[Ropie]

I don’t live in America, but I do watch many American movies and TV shows. I do not detect any significant trend toward objectifying America’s cultural and societal issues in futuristic art. House, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The West Wing, Fight Club, American Beauty etc. etc. – all very popular forms of visual art dealing with important concerns – none of which are set in the future.
There is a significant portion of US telly that is available in the UK that does deal with the future or with fantasy of some kind. There must be atleast 20 of them, probably many more, available to those with cable. However, these are not myths, not even the ones that are based on mythical adventures (Hercules?) They are just entertainment that responds to currently fashionable ideas and opinions. Whatever basic core values they explore (love, hate, good, evil) can of course find parallels with contemporary society but this is no different to Curb Your Enthusiasm (incidently, one of my favourite TV shows).

[Mugwump]

There is a significant portion of US telly that is available in the UK that does deal with the future or with fantasy of some kind. There must be at least 20 of them, probably many more, available to those with cable.

Oh yes, there are plenty of SF shows currently being pumped through the airwaves. But I don't see any significant growth trend that puts SF above other genres. SF has been ever present on TV long before I began watching in the early 70s. For every Firefly there's a Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea; for every Babylon 5 there's a Gemini Man or a Future Cop or a Six-Million Dollar Man or The Incredible Hulk or Blue Thunder or Street Hawk etc.

I do think TV SF (like all genres) has become more sophisticated - more politically conscious. Consider the chasmic difference between the modern Battlestar Galactica, with its atmosphere of post-9/11 moral and ethical uncertainty, and the vacuous Glen A. Larson popcorn nonsense than devoured the screens in the late 70s and early 80s.

However, these are not myths, not even the ones that are based on mythical adventures (Hercules?).

I think Hercules is a bit of a grey area, tbh. Technically it qualifies as part of Greek Mythology, but the TV show bears scant resemblance. I doubt whether Robert Graves would approve. Aside from this I agree entirely.