[Eventine]

Another Kate Elliot reader! Great effort Shadowen.
I recommend Kate Elliot for all. Very realistic - the peasants are all starving and the royalty lives by travelling around scabbing off the common folk. Reminds of what medieval times must really have been like (with a bit of magic thrown in).

[Saruman]

::reads Shadowmen's post::

::gasps!!!!!!!!::

That book was great!!.. I just got through reading it today. Aren't most fights between freedom and some sort of slavery in fantasy? Eversince the introduction to Jajang thats been what the book was about. I agree unlike most books they blantantly tried to make the Imperial Order communist but in this book unlike in the real world the Communist are the bigger and stronger government and itz capitalist fighting for there survival.

Unsympathetic?... This is War we are talkin about.. no not some economic war.. but a real war for the survival. I can understand why both sides are the way they are in there views of sympathy. They explain it well in the book.

Now I would agree with you Shadowmen that they book was "capitalism good communism bad" if Richard and his army went to the Old World to "free" people but the fact jajang and his army are goin to the new world to "free" people is an irony on real life because in real life is always capitalist countries sending troops to try and liberate opressed countries.. does that make sense? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Tantalus]

Best author? C'mon, Tolkien is still the king. Its the charm, okay.
But um, I like a lot of authors because everyone more-or-less brings a new slant to fantasy...which is why any of us recognise their names among the multitude of wanabe writers. They all have their own niches in fantasy.
R Jordan does not deserve that honor because he hasn't finished his series yet. or in the near future. maybe he can't finish it?
Brooks was also my first stab at fantasy like Mick141 (together with M Moorcock: remember Elric, anybody?)
O Scott-Card is good, very clever.
G.R.R.Martin is real.
I still get a few chuckles when I revisit Eddings and Belgariad etc.
Another series I liked a lot was R.A.Salvatore Forgotten Realms:Menzoberran. I have a soft spot for anti-heroes.
Too many boooks, I rather respect a good story myself. Um, Katie Elliot is it? Must try it then.

[FitzChivalry]

Hmm... i don't want to get into a real life discussion here... but commonism wasn't the one fighting for its life against capitalism in our history...
There was a cold war and the commies lost..
Doesn't mean they were the small hunted ones...

[Shadowen]

Your argument does make sense Saruman, and my problem with the book isn't just the communism/capitalism thing. It's just so badly written. how many times in any one chapter must we be told that adie was blinded and now sees with her magic 'sight'? How many times must we be told how much Richard and Kahlan love each other, how beautiful/handsome/clever they are? I realise that there has has to be some mention of the other books, but the whole story is practically retold. I loved the first 3 books, then I just became bored with the whole thing. I found Nicci totally unbelievable as a character, and felt absolutely no sympathy for her - and the fact that Goodkind expects us to believe that a statue can change the hearts of minds of millions of people - please!

I don't mean to get anyones back up about these books, I realise Goodkind is very popular - just not with me!

[FitzChivalry]

Not with me either, and it seems that with every new book the number of his fans gets smaller.

[Pluvious]

I agree about Goodkind. Plus it creeps me out how similiar he has been to Jordan anyway. Of course I've lost interest in Jordan as well, although his idea and world are about the most interesting I have read to this point.

George R.R. Martin is definately my favorite. Others I have enjoyed are Robin Hobb, J.V. Jones (no one mentioned her yet), and Mickey Zucker Reichert (Renshai chronicles).

And can someone give me a reason why they like Tolkein so much. I know his works are fantasy classics, but why would you say Tokein is the best (oh, I've done it now)? I think I like a little more "heroicness" in my heroes. I'm not a big fan of Donaldson, Tad Williams, Angus Wells or David Eddings either.

[Giarc]

To forestall a large sidetrack here: Pluvius, try reading the topic entitled "Sorry tolkien fans" for the gory details and opinions regarding Tolkien.

[Eventine]

OK - time for me to offer a bit more of an opinion.
Saruman - as far as the whole communism vs capitalism thing goes, I think Americans take it way too seriously. And it's pretty much being reflected in Goodkinds work. Basically, I don't give a damn about the stereotypical patriotic, anti communist rants that Americans manage to spill out. If I did care, I would watch more American television / movies. I'm not sure if you guys realise how much of a major part of your stereotype it takes up. And if it continues in movies and books, it will only get worse. This rant is now political and not about books however, so I will stop before I offend you anymore.

Also - I'm sticking with Shadowen - for every book Goodkind releases, he loses more fans. Me included. Soul of the Fire was utterly terrible. it did nothing with the story except display a poor political rant, and finished so abruptly and poorly I nearly cried in agony.

[Pluvious]

As an American I can honestly say that I don't consider communism vs capitalism as an issue any longer. Communism is no longer as widespread throughout the world or in the minds of people.

Anyway, there is a detailed history of Americans having to deal with communism and its influences-if that is what you are referring to. Many Americans were disatisfied with social freedoms (minorities included) and economic instability before the 2nd world war. Many turned to communist ideals.

However, this didn't last long due to different factors, possibly including an economic boon after the war and witnessing what Stalin did in Russia. Of course after this you might say America became preocuppied with Communism and its belief in it as an evil entity-but I think most people now realize (as many years have passed since vietnam and other incidents) that mistakes were made.

And now most Americans (I think) consider these thinks part of the past, to be remembered and learned from, but largely a non factor in today's society.