[Tagalie]

*ducks to avoid stones*

Please let me explain myself a little….

I came across this forum whilst idling at work, dying of boredom as a data entry temp. I’m more interested in SF, but have been lurking over here to check out opinions.
But it occurred to me that I can’t really class myself as a Fantasy lover, as I have read no “adult” Fantasy apart from Tolkien. I’ve actually only just realised this! On my “escapist” bookshelf there is Tolkien, the beloved childhood treasures of Brian Jacques and Susan Cooper- still standing up to re-reading at my bitter and jaded 24 years- and the recent discoveries of Rowling and Pullman.

I first read LOTR at the age of 15 and it really did change my life; in the way I thought about the possibility and power of authors. Nothing I’ve read since has come close in terms of epic scale, minute detail, ambition, confidence and self-belief, except perhaps Dune. No other book has made me think about what it is to write and be involved as a reader, except maybe Calvino’s If On a Winter’s Night a Traveller and Nabakov’s Pale Fire. Now, I realise it’s probably quite fashionable right now for a bit of anti-Tolkien backlash. I accept it may not be everyone’s favourite, but it surely can’t be denied as the originator of this genre and the most respected flagship in the defence of “quality”.

I’ve read a hefty amount in most literary genres in the last 9 years or so, but have never been tempted by any other fantasy writer not ostensibly writing for children (oh yeah, I once had the misfortune to read a Terry Pratchett, but I’ll save that rant for another day!). I look at the shelves of the “fantasy” section of bookshops- all similar artwork and cover design with names like Dragon Blade of Destiny and Blood Winter of Elf Slaying, am half tempted, but just think, “what’s the point?!” I’m not saying I think they’ll be bad, I’m sure some of them are quite good. But are they truly life-changingly great? I’m kind of worried I’ll finish one, mildly enjoy it, but feel left with a niggling sense of dissatisfaction; that I’ve been fobbed off with a cheap imitation, like supermarket own-brand cornflakes. Not the original and not the best.

I know, I know what you’re thinking- shut your whining face, woman and just read and find out for yourself!

After perusing this board I have noted a few names that seem to be seriously respected, and will give Jordan and Hobb a crack.

But really and truly, in your heart of hearts, is anything as good as LOTR?

[DarthV]

Here's my 2 cents:

Tolkien was what started me on the great "Reading Path". I'd say Middle Earth is pretty much the grandfather of fantasy and a great place to start. The world is nicely fleshed out...an amazing work of creating a whole set of languages. But I believe that more modern fantasy works have gone beyond it - mostly in the area of character building.

Just imagine if Frodo and Sam had personalities like Thomas Covenant and Fitz Chivalry. Scary thought, eh ?

[This message has been edited by DarthV (edited April 11, 2002).]

[Alle]

You ask:

But are they truly life-changingly great?

I answer: There are a lot of great books in all genres out there, but how many of them actually change your life? *g* I am an avid reader, but only a small fraction of what I enjoyed could be labelled life changing. However, I am very glad to have read them just the same. *s*

Good luck in your selection. I hope that what you choose encourages your continued fantasy reading. Hobb is an excellent choice, imo, and I also recommend Guy Gavriel Kay most strongly.

Alle

[estranghero]

<begin rant>

Okay, I presume you've read a lot of science-fiction since you said you're an avid reader of SF.

My question for you is: is there any point in reading SF after Asimov and Heinlein?

I'm sure in SF there are a lot of shoddy pieces of writing like in Fantasy. Heck, SF is well-known for skiffy and fandom writings. Even Starwars is considered one (though I know there have been steps in trying to improve that sector). So it's not only in Fantasy that there are a lot of bad writing. Every genre has 'em.

Tolkien is considered as the grandmaster of Fantasy but there are also a lot of good writers both past and present in the genre that do the genre proud.

For classics, you have Robert E. Howard, Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcock, Mervyn Peake, Ursula K. LeGuin, Patricia McKillip, Lord Dunsany, etc.

For present writers, you have Guy Gavriel Kay, Stephen Donaldson, China Mielville, Matthew Stover, George R.R. Martin, Robert Jordan, Robin Hobb, etc.

I'm sure the forum-ites can put in their two cents on good authors here but my point is that different perspectives: a Fantasy reader, more knowledgeable in Fantasy than SF, may think there is no life in SF after Asimov or Heinlein. Likewise a SF reader with Fantasy's Tolkien.

But there is. You just have to look for it, read it, and think about it.

<end rant>

[Penumbra]

I have an article here called "An Appreciation of Tolkien" which I think you might like to read. I have to admit that after LOTR, the Silmarillion and the Unfinished Tales, I haven't found anything as compelling in the literature. In SF, the closest anyone comes to it is probably "The Foundation Trilogy" by Asimov and the "Dune"
series by Herbert, though neither author is as dedicated to their creations as John Tolkien was to Middle Earth. Until someone else demonstrates a superior mastery, I think LOTR will remain the alpha and the omega of the genre, possibly for a very long time.

[ChrisW]

I feel like a jerk for removing this... but my hands are tied DenniszM



[This message has been edited by dennizm (edited April 13, 2002).]

[Bardos]

I have one basic question to ask: CALDAZAR, HOW DID YOU DO THAT?!?! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[James Barclay]

Yes.

There is a great deal of excellent fantasy out there begging to be read. These pages are loaded with opinion as you've noted... just take your pick. Better than Tolkein? Very hard to judge, but different, definitely and for that reason alone, surely worth trying out.

And don't judge Pratchett on a single book. Maybe it isn't your sense of humour but IMO, he can be superb.

And yeah, Caldazar, how did you do that?

[Caly]

My question:

Is there any point in reading Tolkien after reading other Fantasy?

I never read Tolkien when I was a kid, and I'm trying to read it now since he s the "Father of Modern Fantasy" but I just can't get into it. It was going ok for a while, but I got stuck on the Tom Bombaldi (sp?) part and just can't get past it. I think modern fantasy writers have taken an idea and really improved upon it. Of course there are crapy authors, but it doesn't make sense not to read in a genre just bc you read the beginning of the genre.

Caleyna, http://www.fantasyfreaks.org

[Rooster]

Definitely.

Tolkien definitely isn't the ummm... grand master of the genre, and by saying this, I mean that when you've read Tolkien there's still lots of other rewarding reads out there. Just check those n+1 recommendation threads that are floating around here...

And Caldazar linked to a puking smiley from www.theunholytrinity.org (http://www.theunholytrinity.org) using UBB's IMG tag.