[saintjon]

I'm sick of looking through various boards and it seems like no matter fantasy work is mentioned there's always someone who feels compelled to call it a Tolkien ripoff. Sometime these accusations seem totally groundless and just all-around irritating. It's like, "Oh, there's an old wizard. Tolkien ripoff." "Oh there's a child (am I the only one who remembers Frodo was fifty?), Tolkien ripoff."

Give it a rest for God's sake. Thinking like that, I could probably call anything remotely fantasy a Tolkien ripoff. As if I care. The guy started a movement (he knew he was too!) and I'm not going to complain because people take the torch and run with it.

Didn't Tolkien himself take a lot of inspiration from myths like Beowulf? I haven't heard anyone call him a Slovakian myth rip-off.

[Qin]

I know this is going to be in bad taste, but...is SaintJohn a Jesus ripoff? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Bond]

I've come to the conclusion that those who are inclined to say everything is a Tolkien ripoff are in the main basically ignorant. Moreover it seems that the majority of those that do think that by "showing off" their ability to refer to Tolkien they are looking smart instead of actually looking rather pathetic. Let's face it I'm no expert but even I can refer to certain fantasy archtypes dating much earlier than Tolkien.

[Alucard]

"Moreover it seems that the majority of those that do think that by "showing off" their ability to refer to Tolkien they are looking smart instead of actually looking rather pathetic."

Couldn't have said it better myself, Bond.

[Qin]

Read the Prose Edda someday, if you ever get a chance (I've had a hell of a difficult time finding it here in the states). You'll see for yourself that Tolkien deliberately copied and pasted names from the Welsh and Nordic texts and inserted them into his stories.

Most texts are derivative in nature because they simply copy the surface and fail to see what lies beneath the surface of Tolkiens works, both for better and for worse.

It's easy enough to spot an archetype once you've read enough fantasy novels and classic mythological works.

The next time you stumble across such people, elevate the conversation by asking them the importance of the myths and the dangers of myth-making in the modern day world in the context of the fantasy genre...

[This message has been edited by Qin (edited April 15, 2002).]

[saintjon]

Or I could just tell them to bugger off. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Qin]

But that's too easy! You need to tell them exactly why they're wrong and let them count the ways!

Or maybe that's the arrogant side of me trying to speak out http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

[saintjon]

Yeah, the Taoist part of my brain would really rather tell them to bugger off, and not worry if they know how wrong they are.

Tell the truth, sometimes I burn people or prove them wrong so neatly they don't even realize it. It's a great thing to be able to do, but OTOH I seldom win online arguments.

[Qin]

Arguments in person are far superior to these online forums - at least you can see the other person's reactions and know when you're stepping over the line, among other things.

[Tagalie]

Of course Tolkien referenced established classics. As a professor of Anglo Saxon, I'm sure he'd be delighted if someone was inspired enough to tackle Beowulf or Sir Gawain after reading some of his stuff.
The thing about Tolkien is, you really get the impression that he was writing from the heart, it meant such a lot to him. He really wasn't bothered how successful it was, and the obsessive fans annoyed him enough to leave Oxford and come to my home town (a sure sign of desperation).
What he did do was unknowingly start an industry of rather cliched stereotypes. It doesn't take much to trace images back to Tolkien, as they in turn were based on almost forgotten staples of European folklore. Tolkien just retold them in a convincing and enthralling manner.