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-Asher-
November 19th, 2006, 01:11 PM
I am a Bond fan. That said this movie disappointed me. Maybe I expected too much, but I didn't see what everyone else saw. I took Friday off and went to the first show and the theater was 3/4 full, a rarity.

Loved the teaser, I thought we were going to get the Bond from Fleming's books.

Then the HORRIBLE credits (1960s) and even worse theme.

Then a Jackie Chan chase scene, culminating in Bond breaking into and out of an Embassy. (btw why was he chasing this guy? Did his partner die?) This is supposed to be a grittier, darker Bond but in the escape he shoots the propane tank which explodes, yet all the soldiers standing about 2 to 5 feet from the tank aren't blownup, killed, or even wounded? They are just knocked down. WTF.

Then, after M's little tirade at a staffer, Bond breaks into her home, illegally uses her computer and access to break into MI6's computer system to run data. Somehow this new 00 agent has found M's house, her personal access passwords and even her name. (This scene didn't work at all for me. This looks like something that was left in the original script from when they thought Brosnan would be Bond again. Since this is a reboot why is she cutting Bond any slack? She should have shot him in the head. I could see if she knew and respected Bonds work but he has no reputation yet. )

Off to the Bahamas. Here we get the only laugh during the entire movie, in my theater. (parking the guys car). Again Bond illegally breaks into MI6's computers, this time they catch him, but don't stop him. A little poker, a little rolling around on the floor with the wife of the guy he's watching and then a quick flight to Miami.

For some reason the new prototype airplane is being shown off at night. Huh? Bond, after a quick visit to a museum and a knifing now follows the new bomber to the airport. (Who leaves their gun sitting in an open locker ?!?!) Then we get an Indiana Jones truck fight scene. and Bond after being arrested flies back to the Bahamas to be met by M.

Why is M, the boss of MI6 in the Bahamas?? They inject a tracking device into Bond so she can keep an eye on him. (yet she never does...) Bond then goes to play poker, under cover, yet Bond is so sure he has blown any cover they could possible give him that he doesn't even try to use it.

We get some boring poker and then a break. During the break the Nigerians come after LeChiffe threaten both him and his girlfriend, yet leave without the money they came, and without doing anything to the girl. Then Bond gets to kill them (in a fight which reminded me of the elevator fight in Diamonds are Forever) Back to boring poker. Then another break. Then Bond gets poisoned. After running out to his car, he dies, only to be brought back by Vesper. More poker. Bond loses, Bond wins with CIA money. Then the CIA takes LeChiffe. (thats the last we see of the CIA) Then somehow Lechiffe is loose grabs Vesper and we get the stupidest car chase and crash I've ever seen. (what the Aston Martin flips 7 or 8 times if you turn too fast? No airbags?? just stupid.)

We then get to see some torture. Then someone shows up, kills LeChiffe and Bond wakes up in the hospital. Here the movie really stops making any sense. How long is Bond in the hospital? I ask because if its all the same day, then Bond should change his name to Superman. If its anything more then a day or two the rest of the story makes no sense, because M should have gotten the treasuries money back.

Bond then retires (His whole I need to save what little soul I have left speech again seems something left over from a Brosnan script not something a new agent would say.) after they reach Naples.

Then we get Bond answering Vesper's phone and M asking where is the money. Bond then goes after Vesper we get a firefight in a sinking building and Bond fails to save Vesper and loses the money. He goes back to his boat and somehow figures out where Mr.White lives from a text message and he goes and shoots him in the leg...and the movie ends. (White no longer had the case!)

Bond is an almost complete failure in this movie. Other than saving the airplane, he gets the agent killed in the cobra pit (or does he, the movie is unclear), he gets the wife tortured and killed(Solange), Vesper gets killed(a high level Treasury agent), Bond loses $150 million pounds, he lets LeChiffe get killed even though M wants him alive, he breaks Embassy sanction, he finds and breaks into M's house, somehow learns and uses her password and access, twice. He gets Mathis taken by MI6 even though he probably isn't the problem. Twice Vesper saves his life, first from the poison and then again from the organization after the torture.

OK, forgot he won the poker game. I like Dame Judi Dench but they make her M look like a complete fool. I think Craig could be a very good Bond, but they need decent scripts. This one was a mess. :eek:

Gildor
November 19th, 2006, 02:56 PM
I guess it's just Bond Fans who don't like the new Bond. I know some hardcore fans that just don't want to see this film, or are'nt enamoured by Daniel Craig in the slightest.

While I find most of your points are valid, they still have the air of a forced nitpicking due to the fact, that wait a minute, this isn't the bond I know and love, what going on?!

I have no problem with any of the points you raised, there just aspects of the story, they didn't detract from my enjoyement of the film.

I'm not going to go into a lengthy rebuttal, but I found this refreshing and miles better than any other bond film

..

Why? Well no cheesy villains, no stupidly convulted plots, no weapon in space, no stupid gadgets that fit excatly the situation Bond finds himself in (Apart from the heart thing in the Aston, but we'll forgive the writers that), no silly British sophistication, no tailoring generically to the IMO previously overused Bond signitures.

Evil Agent
November 19th, 2006, 09:29 PM
As I said in another thread, I loved the movie. Probably the best Bond I've seen (though I've only seen Moonraker, and Goldeneye!). I definitely thought that Daniel Craig was better than Pierce Brosnan, who seemed too old and too handsome. The new guy was rough around the edges, and more fun to watch.

I find most of Asher's complaints to be nitpicking, and like Gildor, none of them really bothered me. I actually loved the opening credits, and didn't mind the song mainly because it was sung by Chris Cornell (though it was one of his least memorable songs, his voice still rocks).

I pretty much enjoyed everything in the film, and I was willing to forgive the occasional cheesy love story moments, because I expect that in a Bond film. The movie kept me mostly entertained all the way through, which is more than I can say about most films of 2006 so far.

I don't really feel like going over all the details, I'm not a huge enough Bond fan, but overall I thought it was great and I will probably see the next one as well.

Dragonz
November 20th, 2006, 08:48 AM
I thought it was far superior to the Brosnan efforts if only for the inventiveness of the script and the total restyling of the Bond film genre. Pretty much everything you expect from a Bond film has been taken out or reworked cleverly to give it a fresh face and I thought that was necessary for this somewhat weary series of movies. I actually quite liked the opening credits and song was bad in a good way like in most Bond movies.

Did anyone else not think the invention of a new drink called the Vespa was a cinematic metaphor for the total newness of James Bond and a sign that they are going to do something completly different with the series

Gildor
November 21st, 2006, 07:41 AM
Did anyone else not think the invention of a new drink called the Vespa was a cinematic metaphor for the total newness of James Bond and a sign that they are going to do something completly different with the series

Yeah, that mixture for the drink is meant to be one of Flemmings concoctions apparantly. Plus I liked when Bond became really flippant over what he was drinking, it was in one of the Casino scenes, can't remember whether a Martini was invloved.

Ouroboros
November 21st, 2006, 11:40 AM
I found 'Casino Royale' reasonably enjoyable in parts, but for the majority of the movie I just wasn't feeling it.

When they decided to take the franchise into gritty, contemporary waters they set themselves a difficult task.... Because while the Bond mythos stagnated and became ever more self-reverential and fanciful, the rest of the movie world moved on.

I can think of a half dozen espionage movies in recent years which were not that tremendously well-received by either movie-goers or criticis, but which are much more engaging than this latest Bond outing. And that's not even mentioning the new gold standard in the genre- stuff like the Jason Bourne movies.

Personally I don't think Craig was to blame. He's actually not a bad Bond. Much of the emotional hand-wringing element comes down to the essential nature of the plot- this is almost a pre-Bond movie, in the sense that it is about the genesis of the character everyone has come to know. I do get the idea that this was intended to be a sort of 'Batman Begins' for the Bond franchise. The problem was that the entire franchise is looking entirely dated. Did it really need yet another rebirth? I say put it on ice for fifteen years and then see how we're doing.

Evil Agent
November 21st, 2006, 10:49 PM
How can you say this installment looked "dated" or out of touch??? The whole point of this installment was to bring it up to date, and cast off the old Bond cliches.... and I thought it succeeded. I'm not a hardcore Bond fan, but to me it seemed far more fresh and entertaining than the last few episodes.

But then again, Ouroboros, I think we've disagreed on pretty much every single movie of 2006. I remember you wrote a very positive review for Superman Returns, as well as a few other movies that I found highly disappointing. So I guess everyone will always have their own opinion. And that's a good thing! :)

Eldanuumea
November 24th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Did I see the same film as Asher?

I saw it twice in the same weekend......I am a died-in-the-wool Connery fan, but I consider Craig the best Bond ever. His character is so much more complex, there are so many fine nuances.
Just one example......the scene where a shivering Vesper is tenderly comforted by Bond. Can you imagine any of the other Bonds acting this way and not turning the scene into someething sexual rather than poignant?

As for the opening credits, I thought they were fantastic. I am so tired of all the peep-show acrobatics, naked women flinging themselves around the screen......I haven't even bothered to watch any of them past Timothy Dalton's first, so I don't know what the later credits are, truthfully. But these were a work of art, IMHO.

Ouroboros
November 24th, 2006, 11:57 AM
I liked the retro opening credits as well. Personally I didn't think Chris Cornell's theme tune is up to much though ... and I'm normally a fan of his. It was just really forgettable.

As regards the shower scene with Vesper- I didn't know what to make of it, to be honest- I thought it was embarassingly implausible and just didn't ring true for me at all. It was one of quite a few moments in the movie which seemed to illicit laughs unintentionally from the audience (never a good sign in a serious movie).

It will be interesting where the franchise goes from here. I imagine they've done enough to ensure that Craig will have at least one more outing- most likely this time taking on the shadowly organisation behind Vesper's blackmail.

Can't help but wish they'd done as Tarantino asked and given him one shot with the franchise, though....

Gildor
November 24th, 2006, 01:27 PM
It will be interesting where the franchise goes from here. I imagine they've done enough to ensure that Craig will have at least one more outing- most likely this time taking on the shadowly organisation behind Vesper's blackmail.


Craig has signed on for three films. And I think the shadowy org may be Spectre, and that they may actually just re do the films where Spectre features ... don't quote me on that, it seems a reasonable enough way to go though.