[Frostmourne]

I knew that almost all of Tolkien's stuff was completely his own. But I still dislike his books.

[Evil Agent]

WHAT?!? Frost, I thought you liked LOTR...?

[Iskaral Pust]

I am determined not to get sidetracked and answer the original question. My main criticisms of Tolkien are his characters. Nearly the whole Fellowship are just there to get Frodo to Mordor. Do we ever actually find out anything about Legolas' character, no he's just there to kill things, just like Glimli, just like Gandalf, just like Aragorn. Are there any conflicts in them, what are there reasons for helping Frodo etc. WHat about the hobbits, they just exist we never get a bit of character development thoughout the whole novel. Now we turn to Sauron, does no one else think a timeless returning evil is a bit weak? I refuse to believe that any creature can just exist as evil, but we never find out about him, why he's so cruel, is there any hope for redemption. He's not even in the book; that's one great villian. The other big problem I have with LOtR is the plot: we must destroy this ring, bad people will try to stop us. hmm...he must have spent some time thinking up that one.

[Frostmourne]

WHAT?!? Frost, I thought you liked LOTR...?

Sorry that this is news to you EA, I like the history, I've studied it, learned almost everything but the languages and watched every movie and enjoyed them all. BUT! I hated the LOTR series, so much boring stuff to read. That almost discouraged me from reading ASOIAF simply because the huge size=pages and pages of boring. But snake0024 told me to read it, so I stole, umm, borrowed A game of thrones from him and I liked it.

[Evil Agent]

Sorry to hear that, Frost! That's really sad! :(

Iskaral, what you say makes sense but isn't exactly true. There IS in fact a lot of background to the Hobbits, which you can find in The Hobbit, as well as the prologue and appendices to LOTR. Also, there is a lot more background on Sauron's character, who wasn't always a hideous evil monster, which can be found in the Silmarillion and in other bits of the History Of Middle Earth. Tolkien's world is bigger than LOTR. Also, you can't compare it to something like, say, Erikson, since it's practically a completely different genre of writing, and about 60 years older.

[Iskaral Pust]

Originally posted by Evil Agent

Iskaral, what you say makes sense but isn't exactly true. There IS in fact a lot of background to the Hobbits, which you can find in The Hobbit, as well as the prologue and appendices to LOTR. Also, there is a lot more background on Sauron's character, who wasn't always a hideous evil monster, which can be found in the Silmarillion and in other bits of the History Of Middle Earth. Tolkien's world is bigger than LOTR. Also, you can't compare it to something like, say, Erikson, since it's practically a completely different genre of writing, and about 60 years older.

I am well aware that Sauron and the Hobbits have backround. I think the Silmarillion is a masterpiece. But
a: (if I agreed with what you said) why should the reader have to go to appendicies and prequels for character development?
b: all there is in the appendicies and prequels are more information, not any actual development or depth to the characters. Sauron, as you say, was not always evil, but why. Can you give me a deep analysis into the decisions he made and tell me why he turned evil? All I found out was that just one day he was suddenly evil.

Finally, I never once compared Tolkien's work to Erikson, but I believe it is well within my rights as a reader and I would say they are from fairly similar genres of writing.;)

[Evil Agent]

It's just that Tolkien's work is an oddity... it is. It's not what any novelist would normally write or try to sell, ESPECIALLY back when it was written.

Yes, I will admit, it is lacking in such things as detailed character development for Sauron... but for me, that' sjust part of LOTR. I don't NEED to read exactly why Sauron decided to start serving Morgoth... It's almost more frightening if I know almost nothing about it. This is one of the ways in which LOTR reads more like an old Icelandic saga or piece of mythology, by which it was inspired.

But yes, you're right, it is missing many elements that make a good fantasy novel today. Like Erikson. ;)