[Mithfânion]

Greetings all

Just a small question: I'm interested in starting the Tales of the Otori trilogy by Lian Hearns. At first I thought it might be a bit too young adult but it doesn't seem like that at all after some more research, despite the youthful age of the protagonists. Basically I like I'm everything I'm reading about what the book is about and where it is set, but one thing makes me a bit nervous. It seems like the book is mostly realistic, with a straight up historical setting, which is cool, but then I read about how the Tribe has magical abilities, and how specifically they have abilities like making themselves literally invisible ( seems lame) and projecting double images of themselves ( again, seems lame). I get the feeling of rather dull magical abilities which will come off as deus ex machinas; let's face it, if you can turn yourself invisble or project double images of yourself you're pretty much instantly in a different league or at the least able to get out of virtually all situations. From my POV it would have been cool if the protagonist had simply been a very well-trained Samurai. Is he that as well? Or does he rely mostly on magical antics? Also, do you get some insight into the elite warriors of the Tribe and the different clans?

Basically I want to know if the magical elements don't feel out of place, since these abilities are basically the only "Fantasy" aspect about an otherwise mythical Japan that seems very historical. Always seemed to me the real Ninja's had some pretty powerful weaponry without the author also needing to turn to dubious "magic".

[ronso_rage]

Takeo is (becomes) both an excellent warrior and a master of the tribe's skills. I suppose the skills could be seen as a deus ex machina at some points but then again it doesn't. (If I sound weird I'm just trying to avoid spoilers)
Many of the fights are against other tribe members so they seem pretty equaly matched, plus skilled tribe members can dectect other member's second halfs, invisibility etc. Also in a world where differences are settled with huge battles (as in the later books) the powers of a small number of people don't really have a great effect.
On the other hand the skills are used to do pretty impossible things like get into impenetrable castles etc. However I really like these books (with exception of the 4th) and I see the skills as a fact of life in the book. We know about them and their limits before they are used in any major way so I don't really see them as deus ex machinas. How ever if you want a straight up realistic novel then maybe you won't like this series.
(Once again, sorry if I've rambled or not made any sense. Im tired :))

[KatG]

Hearn's books are often classified as YA because of the youthful protagonists, but like Alison's, are not specifically written for that audience, as I understand it. I have heard good things about Hearn's writing, and I appreciate that the series has shown that an Asian setting can be very successful. (Apparently, there is some prejudice in some industry quarters toward Asian fantasies as not selling very well, which smacks to me as the old the hero has to be American for Americans to care diatribe we once had in fiction in the U.S.)

I'm not sure if you're complaining that the series has too much magic, too little magic, or awkward magic, Mith. But it is a long tradition in Japanese and Chinese stories to mix magical powers with stories of warriors, so it doesn't sound off to me to have these elements in with a historical Japan.

[Rob B]

Shame on you Mithfânion!;) You've been here long enough to know about the search function! Check ot these threads: Lain Hearn's Across the Nightingale Floor - WOW!! (http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7339)

and the Fantasy Book Club selection in July 2003 (http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5902).

[Mithfânion]

Thanks Rob, had seen those threads but decided I wanted a separate thread because of the specific nature of my question ( often people will not respond much if you drag up a 200 post thread). After some more research I feel pretty re-assured though.

Kat, weird and out of place magic is what I was talking about, and perhaps too much magic as well given the setting's otherwise straight up historical setting.

[beenorthern]

I read the first three Otori books and they didn't seem particularly YA to me. They also seemed more historical than fantasy. (Without the metanormal element, I would have called these Ruritanian fantasy.)

At first, the focus was more on the hero's training -- it took a while before I realized that he had more-than-normal powers. His actions continued to be a combination of samurai training and innate magic. As the series went on, I was given some insight into how the Tribe trained and assigned its members.

Because Hearn has created an almost-Japan that did not actually exist in our history, the magic element merges with the rest of the story quite well -- it's just part of the difference. A world that is almost ours -- but not quite.

[Rob B]

Just busting balls, Mith!

[Miriamele]

Being invisible doesn't get you out of every situation, because other Tribe members can usually detect the invisible person. And all the Tribe members are not always on the same side.

The storylines in these books are complex enough that there's nothing resembling deus ex machina, that I can remember. Lol, no Takeo does not "mostly rely on his magical antics." Actually over the course of the 4 books, magic's presence is subtle, and most of the major events involve "normal" things like battles and love affairs. Takeo and Kaede both learn the skills of the sword. The "magical" Tribe skills don't play as great a part in the story as you might suspect, although they do certainly make things interesting at certain parts.

These books are also quite beautifully written, Mith. I would definitely recommend them. In my opinion the first book was the best--when I read it a few years ago, I finished it in a single day.

[Mithfânion]

Hey Miriamele, I was wondering when you'd show up because I thought I recalled you liked this series. Your tastes are sometimes very much like mine so this is good news. I've just ordered "Across the Nightingale floor" ( along with a non-fiction book on the Samurai by noted expert Stephen Turnbull).

You may be interested to know ( if you didn't already) that there is one final Otori book coming out in September, called "Heaven's net is wide", featuring the life of one Otori Shigeru from age 12, through his training years, battles and love affairs and up until he meets Takeo in "Nightingale".

[Miriamele]

Another book? You're kidding! I remember reading somewhere that Hearn originally planned for only three books, and the fourth one was really a surprise...now there's a fifth. I might have to pick it up--Shigeru was one of my favourite characters. Thanks for the tip! :)