[Thoughtcriminal84]

I saw Willow again tonight...Jesus, I remembered that movie being much cooler than it was. Oh, I still liked it, but some of the more glaring acts of creative strip mining were staring too hard at me for the duration of it. Should have been called "Lord of the Rings: A New Hope" or something. You know, it's sad really. George Lucas has made an entire billion dollar career STEALING ideas from books and putting them into movies. When I hear him called a "Creative Genius" I have to hold down the teeth grinding frenzy that comes over me...Star Wars apparently was (as frank Herbert called it) "A comic book version of Dune"...Willow could be called the same of LOTR. For God's sake, I know there are differences, but PUHLEEZE.

Having said that, Georgie and Chris Claremont wrote a trilogy of books set in the Willow universe, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. I've only read the first book of it, and I thought it was rather good (because Claremont wrote it, i'm sure. Lucas is on the cover because it sells books)

What did YOU think of it?

[Ravenlock]

I have not personally read the books, but my sister and brothers have. The one thing they commented on was that they felt there were problems with the writting. As I understand Chris Clarmont is basically a comic book writer and this was one of his first attempts at novel writting. I'm still planning on reading them, but I havn't made it to that point on my list of books to read yet.

[Metosblat]

I disagree with Frank Herbert's statement. Star Wars was nothing like Dune. The only thing it had in common was it was in space and tatooine was kinda like the planet Dune.
I think George Lucas is a creative genius. If you can tell me where he copied the Death Star and Yoda from i'll probably change my mind. Another thing is that The movie Dune totally SUCKED! Whereas the Star Wars trilogy was good. Both were around the same time so you can't really blame it on the special effects. Even if George Lucas was stealing other peoples ideas (which i don't think he did) at least he could make those ideas into a decent movie.
Bubba Feit Rulz!!!

[Rupert Avery]

TOP reply Metosblat you said everything I wanted to.
Only other thing Thoughtcriminal84 do you belive that Star Wars was "A comic book version of Dune" or are you just going by what Frank Herbert said.Because the only thing I can see as being the same other then being in space is there was an evil empire.
Even the very way they traveled through space was so differnt.In Dune they folded space which was the basies of the story (controling the spice) yet in Starwars they used light speed to travel and it meet nothing.

[Cadfael]

There was a ship very much like the Death Star in EE 'doc' Smith's Lensman books, It was as large as planet Earth and had the power to destroy planets.

Just me sticking my nose in http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Thoughtcriminal84]

Let me be the first to say that I’m a Star Wars fan. I love it just as much as everyone else on the planet, if not more. And let me also admit that I was not in the best of moods when I wrote my first post on this subject; My calling George Lucas a creative strip-miner was a bit harsher than I intended. But I stand by the idea that Star Wars is HIGHLYderivative of Dune in many ways.

Let’s ignore the HORRIBLE Dune movies that have come out, Because you are exactly right on that one…the Dune movies are awful. I think this because the novel cannot be properly translated into a movie…the mental forum of the books many insights requires strict insight into the characters minds…the original Dune movie tried this and failed miserably, and the recent TV series ignored this aspect completely, and sucked as a result of it. (It’s known that Frank Herbert wasn’t pleased with the original movie at all, but he admitted it was probably the best they could do in a movie) I’m speaking of the actual novel compared to the first movie, Star Wars.

Paul Atreides is a boy come from the desert to be a hero.
Luke Skywalker is a boy come from the desert to be a hero.

Dune has the Bene Gesserit, “witches” with a vast array of powers
SW has the Jedi knights, “wizards” with a vast array of powers

Obi-won Kenobi uses a voice that can control the weak minded
Several characters in Dune use a voice trick that can control the weak minded

Baron Harkonnen, Paul’s greatest enemy, is revealed to be his Grandfather
Darth Vader, Luke’s greatest enemy, is revealed to be his Father.

The description of the Force, (which I’ll admit, Is not the same thing as Paul’s powers) is still very similar to a passage in Dune: Messiah where the narrator is describing how his powers work (flowing through all things, created by life, blah blah blah)

Bit of a stretch on this one, but not much: The Fremen carry Crys-knifes, special blades attuned to their bodies, the jedi carry lightsabers, another special “blade”

Paul’s sister also has his special powers
Luke’s sister also has his special powers

This is just Typical of the genre, but both Luke and Paul are foretold by Prophecy

There’s a line by C-3PO near the beginning after the droids have been captured by the Jawas where he states he fears going to the Spice Mines at Kessel, which is an obvious homage to Dune.

Both SW and Dune have an evil Emperor and an Empire.

In both SW and Dune Smugglers play a large role
There are several more, but this is a good list. As I said, Star Wars is a Good Movie, and I enjoyed it immensly. I’ll admit there are also immense differences, but most of those come from simplifying the concepts for a movie, IMHO. It was this simplification that caused Herbert to call Star Wars a “comic book version of Dune”…

I wasn’t the one to notice it, but I DO agree with it.

Of Course, I could be wrong. And kudos must be given to Lucas for changing it up ENOUGH that I would even have to post this.

Finally, There isn’t a direct correlation between the Death Star and anything in Dune. BUT there is in the original Star trek Series…there are several planet Killers over there…
Meanwhile, I always thought Yoda was the Buddha. Or one of the Reverend Mothers of the Bene Gesserit.

[Thoughtcriminal84]

one other thing...it's spelled Boba Fett, not bubba feit. that's a guy down the block from me http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif JK

[Cadfael]

Maybe I am totally off the plot here... but was not George Lucas a film director, that is to also say, NOT an author. He may have been a genius, but when it came to putting a plot together, can he be blamed for looking elsewhere for inspiration. At least there was no outright plaugerism (sp?).

I kinda wish Lucas HAD made a movie of Dune, and not the Lynch (you were right FF) trash we ended up with.

[Metosblat]

Your right about the Voice control thing thoughtcrim, that was a complete and utter idea steal by Lucas i don't think anyone could disagree with that.

Lucas isn't really a Director, he only directed episode 4: a new hope, because of his lack in the budget. The rest he produced and was co-screenplay writer(he had the ideas and other writers helped him put it onto paper)
If anyone has seen the Movie Wag the Dog (and if you can beleive it) the producer does alot of stuff that he never really gets credit for.

[Rupert Avery]

My apologys Thoughtcriminal84 if I sounded rather harsh myself.I think that it was the comment about the "strip mining" that just got me a bit worked up.The list you posted was good, I have seen and read both Star Wars and Dune and never know that there were so many similarities.I guess Im just a big Star Wars fun and I hate to admit the truth.