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Anthorn
March 1st, 2007, 04:41 PM
These ideas and things..............................

I have several main characters who dont meet eachother until later.
I have a city called Mana, that is built above the original city and made completely of iron.
Anthorn my main character is a thief but not an orphan, his mother is a character in the book too (Until she dies.) He does'nt steal for himself or others he just steals for the hell of it. often cheerful.
Nikita is a songmage/singer. used to be part of a group of magic users, until the group were slaughtered and she escaped. Rather depressed at times.
Vena, a young girl, has her family slaughtered by Lycrots. Is chased through forest until she is rescued by Tanya a spy.
Kiros, Tanya's paymaster, and old mage and former member of the council.

those are a few characters i have.

also are these cliches?

1) boy is the son of a suposed evul sorceress but does not know it.
2) A diamond stone which is a prison for said sorceress.
3) Airships?


I dont really have a synopsis but here it goes.



Book one Songmage.

A thousand years ago a city was destroyed and a war ended as a result. And from then on the continent of Alexandria survived in uneasy peace, Ruled by the victors of the war The council of watchers. For a thousand years they have kept the peace. No one dared strike against them and with no one to fight the Guardians and armies, became fat and lazy.

Then Mana city is attacked, and its Governer overthrown by the man known only as the Judge using aincent technologies, the Order of the Rose a school for women users of magic is destroyed, only one girl survives Nikita. And with her she takes a tiny Diamond stone, unaware of what it holds, only that she must keep it safe.

Three years pass, Nikita now a woman still hides under the great iron city of Mana, still protecting the jewel for which her school was destroyed, her only friends a thief named Anthorn and his friend Luna. Aware that the Judge is still looking for her.

Upon the island of Iscari in the west, Vena, daughter of a great war hero is attacked in her home by savage beasts seeking the "Diamond stone." She has no choice but to run.

At the same time Tanya returns to Iscari, from her mission in Caraksand, with troubling thoughts. After a thousand years of imprisonment Anwyn the 'evil' sorceress whom saught to end a world is once again touching the world.

And in the far cold north a woman emerges, a sorceress like no other with one single mission to find the last of the blood.
But in the backround, in the darkness of reality, something else awaits, ready to bind man woman and child to its mysterious purpose.


so is it does it sound uh.... cliche

World Builder
March 1st, 2007, 05:29 PM
My first reaction to the question, even before reading the post, is this: It doesn't matter. What's important are the specifics of how you use the elements of your story, how you make it your own, rather than how many other people have used it before you. And, I imagine, the majoriy of people here would tell you that.

Since this is a fantasy forum, I think this analogy is appropriate. Imagine "cliches" as a sword. Many people use them because they're effecient at accomplishing a goal. A master swordsman wields one and thrives; an inept swordsman wields the same, but not for long. The sword itself is irrelevant compared to the skill of the one using it.

As for the specifics of your post: I could certainly see elements that some might call cliche. The character unexpectedly descended from the villian and the mystical order reduced to a sole surviving member has connections to "Star Wars," the powerful being imprisoned within a tiny item could be related to "The Lord of the Rings." Usually when something has an element from one of the Big-Names, its more likely to be called a cliche than if its from an less popular source.

All in all, I'd say you're doing a decent job of making these elements your own. Should be interesting to see the finished product.

PS: I really like the song mage concept.

AgentRustyBones
March 1st, 2007, 05:39 PM
Those elements can certainly work together.

If done well, and in your own style, than no need to worry about cliches.

If you copy someone else's style, and don't write a compelling story with believable and likable characters, then it will seem tired and cliche.

Almost any fantasy 'convention' can be cliche--from happy-go-lucky thieves to skyships.

Write your story, flesh out your characters so that they are more than the sum of their parts and their histories, and you will be fine.

Doug
aka Agent Rusty Bones

Mock
March 1st, 2007, 07:18 PM
I agree with the above posts, but I strongly advise against having the protagonist be the descendant of a baddie. No matter the literary quality, readers will jump on it like crazy.

Anthorn
March 1st, 2007, 07:24 PM
Anthorn was going to be the son of Anwyn, like the actual blood son but he was born in the middle of the war so Anwyn told his nursemaid Teresa to take him into the future. out of harms way.

James Carmack
March 2nd, 2007, 02:13 AM
As the posters above had said, don't worry about cliches. Repeat after me: "Nihil novum sub solis." There is nothing new under the sun. Whatever you can think of, it's been done before. Trust me on this. An idea can only be called "new" if the previous instances have been forgotten.

That being said, if you just copy and paste somebody else's work--especially a major franchise--and only change the names, you should rightly be flayed alive. (This is doubly true if you make the names rhyme with the more famous counterpart. "He's a young farmboy named Duke who dreams of leaving the desert planet Datu'een. What? 'Luke'? I don't know what you're talking about. This is completely different. I'm not going to get sued!")

You need a good helping of polish, but your cast and concept are both solid and intriguing. If you start writing the story and want some workshopping, I'd be more than happy to help. My partner in crime can vouch for my merit as an editor.

As for making Anthorn the son of Anwyn, it can work, but tread lightly. We'd better not see the following scene:

Anwyn: "Bartholmei never told you what happened to your mother."
Anthorn: "He told me enough! He told me you killed her!"
Anwyn: "No... I... am your mother."
Anthorn: "No... no... That's not true... That's impossible!"
Anwyn: "Search your feelings. You -know- it to be true."
Anthorn: "NOOOOOOOOOOOO! No..."

None of that.

wynnyelle
March 20th, 2007, 07:11 PM
The names sound cliche.

Other than that it's too soon really for me to tell if the story itself will be. It seems to incorporate themes that have been used before in fantasy, though, like someone said above.

Ajax Torbin
March 24th, 2007, 02:28 PM
in my own reading and study of the fantasy market, i have found several things to be true:
1--its hard to break in, most publishers have a list of writers they use over and over. its normal to first publish with a rather small publisher then eventuly move up. (that or start your own house)
2--they will tell you how much it sucks. over and over. in many ways. untill you have a best seller, then the'll tell everyone they were behind you the whole way.
>>>here's the one you want>>>3--you will do some thing that has been done before. trust me, its all been done. twice, probably. what matters is how YOU package it. is it a good read? or can you just kill an hour with it?
4-- they will screw you on the rights. this will happen. the contract they send you(if published) will be HUGE. read it. read it all. then send it back with changes. (lawyers help here)


p.s. hey! another person with a screen name named after their book character! welcome brother.

Abby
March 29th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Book one Songmage.
Sounds like Patricia McKillip's Song of the Basilisk, and the many mage-based fantasy series out there.


A thousand years ago a city was destroyed and a war ended as a result. And from then on the continent of Alexandria survived in uneasy peace, Ruled by the victors of the war The council of watchers. For a thousand years they have kept the peace. No one dared strike against them and with no one to fight the Guardians and armies, became fat and lazy.
Lots of fantasy series are based on rebels who must fight an oppressive regime, which usurped power from a former Age of Glory. That's the basis of Eragon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Wizard's First Rule, R.A. Salvatore's series, etc. and etc. I use this premise, too. What makes yours different from all the rest? I think that's important for an effective synopsis.


the Order of the Rose a school for women users of magic
Robert Jordan (the White Tower), Terry Goodkind (the Confessors), Melanie Rawn (the Mageborn).


the "Diamond stone."
A powerful magical artifact that everyone wants. The Lord of the Rings and lots of other fantasy novels use this. I think it's only a cliche if it sounds like all the rest. What makes your magical artifact different?


After a thousand years of imprisonment Anwyn the 'evil' sorceress whom saught to end a world is once again touching the world.
I don't need to tell you that evil sorceresses and ancient/immortant beings breaking free of imprisonment after 100, 1000, 3000, or 10,000 years is pretty standard in fantasy. What makes your ancient, evil sorceress different from The Dark One, or It, or Maleficent, or Ursula, etc.?


And in the far cold north a woman emerges, a sorceress like no other with one single mission to find the last of the blood.
How is she different from the typical wizard/sorceress mentor character? I'm picturing Anne Rice's Maharet character from the Vampire Chronicles.


But in the backround, in the darkness of reality, something else awaits, ready to bind man woman and child to its mysterious purpose.
Too vague, and that in itself is cliche! Lots of B-movie trailers end with some vague statement like this.

Sorry to rip on you. I'm not saying your work is cliche, but that it can come across that way, with the synopsis you've given. That might just be a synopsis problem. It's friggin' hard to summarize a novel in one page.

Anyway, as other people have said, cliche doesn't go hand-in-hand with bad writing. I've heard somewhere that readers will forgive bad plot and all kinds of other problems as long as the writing is good. I believe it.

Anthorn
March 30th, 2007, 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by Anthorn
Book one Songmage.

Sounds like Patricia McKillip's Song of the Basilisk, and the many mage-based fantasy series out there.

Never heard of it. Its not really a Mage driven story.

Originally Posted by Anthorn
A thousand years ago a city was destroyed and a war ended as a result. And from then on the continent of Alexandria survived in uneasy peace, Ruled by the victors of the war The council of watchers. For a thousand years they have kept the peace. No one dared strike against them and with no one to fight the Guardians and armies, became fat and lazy.

Lots of fantasy series are based on rebels who must fight an oppressive regime, which usurped power from a former Age of Glory. That's the basis of Eragon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Wizard's First Rule, R.A. Salvatore's series, etc. and etc. I use this premise, too. What makes yours different from all the rest? I think that's important for an effective synopsis.

Never read those books that you listed except for that pile of crap eragon.
And its not really a we must fight the power story.

Originally Posted by Anthorn
the Order of the Rose a school for women users of magic

Robert Jordan (the White Tower), Terry Goodkind (the Confessors), Melanie Rawn (the Mageborn).

Like i said i have not read those books except for Jordan, and my school is alot different, being founded by Anwyn in the first place and changed to suit the Councils wims..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthorn
the "Diamond stone."

A powerful magical artifact that everyone wants. The Lord of the Rings and lots of other fantasy novels use this. I think it's only a cliche if it sounds like all the rest. What makes your magical artifact different

The diamond stone is a minor plot point, although valuble to the plot, and not every one wants it. It serves as a prison for Anwyn, and the council are keen not for it to be found because, it will be discovered that they have been telling lies....


Originally Posted by Anthorn
After a thousand years of imprisonment Anwyn the 'evil' sorceress whom saught to end a world is once again touching the world.

I don't need to tell you that evil sorceresses and ancient/immortant beings breaking free of imprisonment after 100, 1000, 3000, or 10,000 years is pretty standard in fantasy. What makes your ancient, evil sorceress different from The Dark One, or It, or Maleficent, or Ursula, etc.?

What makes her different? Um she's not evil. and has just gotten bad press because as you know history is written by the victors.


Originally Posted by Anthorn
And in the far cold north a woman emerges, a sorceress like no other with one single mission to find the last of the blood.

How is she different from the typical wizard/sorceress mentor character? I'm picturing Anne Rice's Maharet character from the Vampire Chronicles.

She's a mentor to no one. and rather insane, has a mask for a face and is rather narsistic.

My novel is not about good verses evil for there is no such thing. All my characters i hope will be believible and there may be not just one "Good guy" That you root for...

And how is it different from those authors that you list? Um... They only last for three books.