[EricD]

Ahhh, Minas Tirith, the Tower of Guard, the City of Kings. Let us compare this fortress amongst fortresses to the all the hosts that the rest of the fantasy world can muster. What sort of army would it take to break into this supreme bastion of strength? Mind you, let us limit the foes of Gondor to fantasy armies that are in Tolkien-style fantasy, i.e: medieval styled, some magic but not too much, etc.

Since there are conflicting views on Minas Tirith (book, movie, etc), let us say that this particular Minas Tirith is a composite of both. The city has 7 tiered levels, each seperated by a wall, which increases in height from the first to the last. There are catapults and mangonels on the walls, and trebuchet emplacements are behind the walls. The outer wall is made of nigh-unbreakable black stone. Minas Tirith has 7 gates. The first gate faces straight out to the east, the second faces half south, the third half north. And so on and so forth, going up all 7 levels to reach the final Citadel and the Tower of Ecthelion.

And now for the army garrisoning Minas Tirith. Within the city are 35,000 regular Gondorrim troops, five times the amount that were actually there at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. Most of them are average soldiers, some combat experience and a goodly amount of training. The elites are the Tower Guards, Fountain Guards and Citadel Guards, three companies of elite, highly trained infantry with mithril helms and mail hauberks of black steel. The regular footmen wear hauberks of mail, black surcoats bearing the Tree of Gondor, winged helmets and fight with sword, spear and bow.

Their foes are allowed any means that they can muster of conquering Minas Tirith. Siege tower, catapults, trebuchets, battering rams, scaling ladders whatever.

And so, is there any army in the worlds of fantasy that could, by force of arms, break into this supreme stronghold of the Gondorrim? I'm not so sure, but what do you guys think?

[Maynard Carion]

First, lets isolate this battle. Ignore any consequences for either sideof the outcome. This is strictly about the attack on the city.

I will pick my army. I will choose the Inrithi of the Holy War in R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing. They are on even terms with the Gondorians in terms of equipment. They prolly beat out most of the Godorians in experience though. At the start of the Holy War, the Inrithi are fielding nearly 230,000 men if I remember correctly. An attacking force generally needs at least a 3-1 advantage in numbers, I am good there.

Since you have already chosen to bottle all your troops in the city, I will not have to contest the Pelennor Fields. I would march my army up the city and make camp.

Then, I would NOT attack.

Attacking Minas Tirith with that many defenders would be stupid and sucidal. You have tried to stack every advantage to the defenders of the city, that it would be pointless. I am not Sauron needing to take the city quickly to prevent Middle Earth uniting against me. I can take my time. Which is exaclty what I will do. This reverses the sitaution and gives my every advantage.

I am going to assume the civilians are still left in the city. Coupled with the fact that you now have 5 times more troops in the city than before, the city is going to be VERY overcrowded. Obviously, your major weakness is supplies. How well did you stockpile the city? How much food is there? How much water? What about ammuntion for the bows and artillery? No matter how much you did stockpile, it will not be enough since time is on my side. That many people in the city is going to eat up your resources very quickly.

On the other hand, I have it easy with supplies. Once again, because you have pulled your army into the city, there is nobody to contest me in your lands. I can take all crops and livestock in your undefended lands. And even if you did kill all your livestock and burn all the crops, I have a clear line of communications with my headquaters back in Mordor. I can bring food and supplies in from there.

I have already mentioned how the city would become overcrowded with the additon of the additonal soldiers, disease is sure to set in. I would encourage this by launching dead bodies into the city.

I am not worried about you storming out of the city, as I have a HUGE numerical advantage and you would be attacking a fortified postion.

Since attacking the city in a head on attack would be stupid, I would simply ride you out. You are going to run out of supplies sooner or later. Then, once most of your army and populace is either sick or dieing from disease and lack of food, I would march my Inrithi in.

[Skilgannon01]

I choose the combined army of Dujek Onearm and Caladan Brood from Steven Erikson's Memories of Ice. They have one thing many other armies are lacking, that is sappers. These sappers are also armed with Moranth Munitions which will guarentee sucess.
Blow a hole in the wall, send in the heavies covering the marines, then Minas Tirith is doomed. If you then ad Anomander Rake and his Tiste Andii warriors then you're really screwed.

[Simon F]

Teneka Khan and the Nadir would have a chance - they overcame Dros Denoch.

Any army lead by the strategos himself Parmenion has to be in with a shout.

[Deornoth]

Strength of arms? You guys are going about it the wrong way ;) I choose the Black Company... :cool: One-Eye and Goblin would bust us in, then the rest of the Company would stir up the populace against the mad Denethor... :D They've done it before so they'd have no trouble doing it again!

[Michael B]

Teneka Khan and the Nadir would have a chance - they overcame Dros Denoch.

I second this. For those who don't know Dros Denoch had six lines of defences and Druss the Legend as garrison commander. If you can defeat that, a few thousand Gondorrim are little more than a snack! :p

[Werthead]

Within the city are 35,000 regular Gondorrim troops, five times the amount that were actually there at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields

Hmm. Fonstad estimates 11,000 facing a Mordor army of 40,000 at an absolute minimum, but very likely two or three multiples of that amount. Certainly in the novel the Gondorians were not has hard-pressed as in the film.

Agreed that a Malazan legion or three could break into the city pretty easily. Assuming no high-magic, than probably Bakker's Inrithi could manage it as well. However, simply the best thing to do is to have a Westerosi army led by Randyll Tarly and Tywin Lannister surround the city whilst Littlefinger tricks Denethor into opening the gates. Shouldn't take very long at all.

[EricD]

I agree that any fortress can be laid low by starvation or strategy. I am talking about sheer attacking power. What sort of force could storm the ramparts, breach the Great Gates and rout the Gondorrim defenders of Minas Tirith?

[Thalador]

I agree that any fortress can be laid low by starvation or strategy. I am talking about sheer attacking power. What sort of force could storm the ramparts, breach the Great Gates and rout the Gondorrim defenders of Minas Tirith?

Raj Ahten, but himself. But then again, we're talking about a level playing field. So we'd have to get rid of the dedicates, leaving him with a totally ordinary army.

So that leaves us with Raj Ahten and his army of 500,000. Enough to do the job.

[FinnMacCool]

The armies of World of Warcraft: 8 million warriors and growing.

Or Lord Foul's armies from The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Get enough ur-viles into a wedge, and the head ur-vile can break through any gate Minas Tirith can put up.