[dendol]

ok, this book has probably already been discussed to death, but i just need some opinions on the other books in the riftwar, serpentwar and empire series.. Ive just finished Magician, and it was a disappointment..

Overall i just found everything way to 'happy'.. there is no tragedy at all (except for one or two deaths) and all characters live happily ever after.. but having read Robin Hobb's Farseers before this, maybe my mind was set for main characters to constantly get the life beat out of them and experience tragic losses..

so what im trying to get at is this: will the rest of Feist's books interest me? if not, does anyone know of a series that will keep me as captivated as I was with Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and Hobb's Farseers trilogy? Im looking for something with political intrigue, war, and a good magic system.. something fast-paced and without too much description - I thought Tad Williams can really crap on about descriptions about those dark, damp tunnels under the hayholt.. but overall, i did enjoy the memory sorrow thorn series..

im open to suggestions/opinions.. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DarthV]

Hrmmmm series that involve having the main characters have the snot beat out of them mentally, physically and emotionally ? Hrmmm 2 (actually 3) series jump right to mind!

Try these:

Stephen R. Donaldson
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever

Lord Foul's Bane
The Illearth War
The Power That Preserves

The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever

The Wounded Land
The One Tree
White Gold Wielder


C.S. Friedman

The Coldfire Trilogy

Black Sun Rising
When True Night Falls
Crown of Shadows

[Barbarossa]

If you are looking for well-drawn characters in tragic storylines, try Guy Gavriel Kay's
Tigana of Lion of al'Rashan.
Personally i would put Kay second only to Martin, on one level with Hobb.
Donaldson is great too, though i preferred his SF gap series to his fantasy stuff.

[Zsinj16]

Well, I actually enjoyed Williams' "crapping
on" about the dark tunnels, I think it makes it more suspenseful!
Anyway, speaking of the "Magician Series", are those novels part of the "Riftwar Saga"? I don't know, myself, because I haven't read them yet.

[Kierk Soren]

Z16, I agree, whats with the "crapping on"comment. Writing a novel, I would imagine, does entail some degree of "description". I have noticed on these boards, not alot but enough, that it almost seems as if there is a rising trend towards a fantasy that reads like the current hollow product Hollywood churns out and shoves down our throat's each summer. "The cookie cutter" fantasy trilogy. Do any of you have some in mind you have run across, the kind where you say " Oh I'll give this a try, looks good", and BAM It's exactly what I'm talking about above. You guys and gals who have read so much more than the rest of us should warn us about those impulse buys...I mean everything in this genre can't be great, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Right? I will push, once again, and proudly JV Jones Cavern of Black Ice...Read It! and wait on the edge of your seat for her to grace us with it's sequel!

[Zsinj16]

I don't know what's with these "crapping on" statements either, Kierk. It just seems to me that a lot of people dislike long discriptions in fantasy, where I love lots of descriptiveness in fantasy so that I can almost imagine the scene in my head.

[Habeed]

Well, there's a BIG BIG difference between long descriptions in fantasy of things that are INTERESTING (Martin describing battles for instance) vs. LONG LONG LONG descriptions by certain authors *cough*Jordan*cough* of mundane things like the clothing someone is wearing while walking around the castle safe as can be. When I read passages like that, I'm like..."Do I really care?"

**SPOILER POSSIBLE**
And I LOVED Martin's description of Joffrey's wedding feast for that reason. He goes into elaborate detail, and so I just KNEW something really really bad was about to happen. And BOOM, it did.
**YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN SPOILED**

[Habeed]

What I didn't like about 'Magician' was deeper than the "happiness". (by the way, that scene at the very end where the King is being crowned...I WANTED a 3 way war to start up...that would have been LOTS of fun, something to spice up an otherwise bland book). There's hardly any tension, anywhere! I read 'Magician' hoping for drop down knock out magic battles between mages...there weren't any (hell, why else would I want to read it?). I read 'Magician' hoping for good combat scenes. There weren't any (just in passing descriptions of long, boring stalemates with lots of extras getting killed). It was horribly unrealistic (why the hell would the Prince himself get in the fighting...how stupid can you be?)

As I recall, one of the characters wanted to be a warrior. Well, BAMMO, he doesn't have to do jack. You'd THINK that he'd have to LEARN to fight, EARNING his combat skills with hard work and much trial. Nope. He gets himself a magic suit of armor and sword and BAM he's a master swordsman and just about invulnerable. No hard work necessary. I thought the whole idea of magic weapons like that is that they are only for those who have EARNED the right to use them...that its the man behind the armor that its all about...not the armor and weapon alone.

Oh sure, Pug casts a few spells...but he becomes so outrageously powerful than none can oppose him, and he doesn't even kill anyone.

Books like this are a waste of paper.

[Bardos]

Magician was a wonderfull book. It's like life, a BIG missanderstandiding between two nations/worlds. The characters are REAL and remain forever with you. It's not like those kill-the-villain-at-the-end books; no, the characters reach an agreement!
It has not so much tension, because, sometimes, in life, not all stories have tension in the end and peace at the beggining. Magician shatters that stereotype, giving us a REAL story in a FANTASY world.
Thought, the books 2 and 3 of the Riftwar have more tension indeed.
Personaly, I read it after the Farseer, and took a dig breath. Whoa, yes! fantasy hasn't died! I was reliaved...
Oh, and I don't give a broken peny for what you have to say...

[This message has been edited by Bardos (edited June 01, 2001).]

[Kierk Soren]

Is this poster Habeed or dendol? UM...Well let me just say that I for one like the author to paint for me a world rich with detail, yes, even down to the intricate weave of the garment. It sounds like this individual, be it Habeed or dendol, likes it fast and furious...such sensibilities are very much of the time and also of a generation I am not apart of...Oh well, I think I'll keep my standards right where they are, and hope that those out there writing for me do the same>