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August 13th, 2007, 12:44 PM
Okay, I finally decided to upload what is so far written of a novel idea. I need other pairs of eyes to look at this and tell me what can be improved. Right now, I'm worried about the pacing of it, and that it may not be fast enough.

I have the plot and basic synopsis worked out, as well as an outline up to 8 chapters, possibly a third into the book. I will post that when I type it up from my notebook here. I have also had trouble in the past getting something to novel length, such as 200 pgs, but that's what I might be shooting for this time.

Let me know how it looks so far.

James Carmack
August 19th, 2007, 11:33 AM
At first, I thought I might be reading a cruel angel's thesis, but your piece isn't quite as similar to that new century gospel as I feared.

Like I was telling J, I can't give you my usual treatment at the moment, but I'll try to deliver it in the latter half of the week.

In the meantime, let me say that you've got a supernatural cyberpunk with promise. The pacing seems fine so far, but the actions scenes do feel a bit clumsy.

Two quick quibbles to tide you over:

First, "Lilim" is plural. The singular is "Lili".

Second, it's not accurate to describe cyborgs as machines. Cyborgs are mecha-orga hybrids. You did mention Sabre has a "human-like" brain. Are we speaking of an actual meat cortex? Is there an organic component to her? If so, how much? If she's 100% synthetic, that would make her an android, not a cyborg. (I would say, though, that even artificially produced organic tissue would qualify a specimen for cyborg status. Remember that the key to cyborgs is mixing flesh and metal.)

More to follow. Keep up the good work until then.

August 19th, 2007, 12:49 PM
I'll fix those points right away, thanx again. And yes, actually part of the inspration comes from NGE. I was actually reading into the fan theories at the time I was revising the concept, and thought that that premise might give new meaning to the story.

I was thinking about including another similarity that comes from FF7, specifically concerning the Jenova cells. With Lilith being uncovered at some point, I was thinking maybe certain people might go under the 'treatment' so to speak. But again, I'd want to take this to a different level so as not to borrow too much.
What do you think?

James Carmack
August 19th, 2007, 08:11 PM
It could be interesting. Depends on the execution, as with all things. Just don't have Hojo tattoo all the specimens with numbers so we can easily identify them as they shamble zombie-like to the Reunion. ^_^

I can see it now. Charlton Heston being carted off screaming "LILIM IS PEOPLE!" ^o^

August 19th, 2007, 09:27 PM
LOL! Yeah, I will definitely aim not to be too obvious.;) Tattoos won't play as big a part here as the side-effects do. I also don't think, at least not yet, that lab specimens, or man-made creatures will be as much a part of it. More like the people who undergo the fusion of Lilith's cells will be strangely enhanced, but not without consequence.

James Carmack
August 20th, 2007, 11:11 AM
Depending on the time frame you're working with, you can play with cellular infusion and gene therapy on postnatal specimens on one level and then have prenatal work on another. Different degrees of refinement (or potential instability) in the successive iterations of the experiment. Shoot, you could even have both sides playing towards the same end. Both Lilim and Evites (Havvaim, maybe?) working to craft the hybrids that could give them the edge.

At any rate, yes the side-effects will be the real draw.

August 20th, 2007, 08:24 PM
Prenatal, or post-natal subjects weren't what I had on my mind. Nor were hybrids really. Though a good route to take in this storyline, I want something that could be done on adult subjects. Since I have it my mind that Lilith's cultured cells are to near perfection in properties and potential, it would be more of an infusion into an adult, therefore enhancing them overall by mitosis and possibly some sort of symbiosis( if the cells have a will of their own). I'm still putting the pieces together, but since this material has such properties, they could also be used to enhance a still developing humans, maybe even in cloning technologies. I just may use these bits and pieces as they come. Still a puzzle yet, but I'm finding the appropriate pieces to fit.

James Carmack
August 21st, 2007, 10:23 AM
I suppose no medical professional would use it that way, but when I said "postnatal", I meant anytime after birth. Also, by hybrids, I meant any mix of human and Lili. Any infusion of Lili genetic material would indisputably render the subject a hybrid, though not in the terms of crossbreeds.

Bear in mind that Lili cells don't need a "will" per se to act as symbionts. They simply need to exist as semi-independent organisms. Now, if the Lili cells actually carry Lilith's will, that can certainly be an interesting plot point.

August 30th, 2007, 06:16 PM
Like I said I would, I've listed here some of the concepts I'll be weaving throughout the story.

Enemies Mirrored
Humankind and Lilim were forged from similar molds, though neither knows it. Adam and Lilith were distantly related, but Lilith transcended the physical plane to allow her offspring to further evolve. With one physical and the other metaphysical, both of their offspring are opposing reflections of eachother; one dark, one light, yet remaining complimentary to eachother.

The Introspective Machine
Sabre is a machine that stands alone. She knew early on that she was a break in the pattern so to speak. Feeling inexplicable indifference toward those around her, she sought a niche that would serve to make her more self-sufficient. But there is still emptiness within, and an unsure quality to her nature. She is searching for the reason to why she exists, and what for.

The Guardian
Osiris is one of the original A.I.s created in the first era of free thinking machines, having evolved and become self aware. After their creation, his and those other entities’ consciousness were allowed to access the net to absorb knowledge and further grow. Eventually, they were implanted into android bodies, but their whereabouts after that time are unknown.
This makes Osiris possibly one of the most intelligent A.I.s in existence. It was once told that those like him were a sort of key to transcendence, and could in some way alter the fate of those they bond with.
These A.I.s are truly immortal, due to the fact that they can exit any body at will, and reappear in another soon after. However, just how they do this is still a mystery.

Kazuya and Sabre’s alliance goes through transitions in order to break the barriers within each of their identities. Eventually, they compliment eachother instead of contrasting.
The same could occur with Adam and Lilith under different circumstances. If they were to coexist in equilibrium, existence could be redefined in superior form.

Self Similarity
In nearly every form, there is a pattern that in the template for design, yet it still allows enough deviation for individuality in each part of the whole. While each fragment retains the basic pattern, they are each unique in a way that another is not.

End of Concepts.

I also have the cell infusion and experimental studies figured now, so those will be listed next also. This stuff is just to show you what ideas have been swirling in my mind, and the symbolism behind them.

PS: You mentioned in the "Legacy" critique thread that you had a new daughter and I only noticed it yesterday. I should say congrats:) All this time I thought I may be talking to someone my age, 22-23, but how old are you?
And really on a serious note, I do appreciate that you have taken the time to critique my stuff even with the goings on in your life.

August 30th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Here's what I've devised in plot/planning at least for the cell infusion, side effects, and yes, I decided to create hybrids. I think I could use them somehow, maybe develop a few of them to pull heart strings yet creep you out. I have an idea up my sleeve.

Lilith’s Synthetic Legacy

Soon after new life forms began emerging from Lilith’s core, humankind unearthed her dormant body. Never able to fully excavate the enormous body, samples were taken and studied. Eventually, experimentation was pursued and certain sections of humankind were modified through the mitosis of Lilith’s cells.
Cell Infusion & Gene Therapy:
Individuals who take in Lilith’s cells unwittingly gain a connection to her biologically as her cells modify the body. They are drawn to Lilith’s true body, because she is attempting to regenerate, thus drawing back her misplaced cells.
Occasionally, these infused people will turn up missing. Most often, they are so pulled by the will of Lilith’s cells that they return to her body, and are completely absorbed. Usually, by that time, it is the individual’s conscious desire to return to the body out of an overwhelming sense of peace they feel recombining will bring.
Side Effects of Cell Infusion:
Infused individuals usually remain fairly normal with the exception of the enhancements, but this isn’t always the case. The cells affect some too aggressively, and their current forms are often changed irrevocably into something like a chimera. They still may be conscious of who and what they were even after the mutation. This side effect can occur either immediately after infusion, or at a far later time.

Lilith’s Synthetic Legacy- Part II

In addition to the cell infusion, a project was started to truly test their affects on human genetics, from early stages of development to adulthood. Cloned human embryos were infused with the cells and allowed to develop to term to observe the full effects of hybridization.
Several were able to fully develop without incident, and thus were tested for potential enhancements. There were many to be counted, such as strength, intelligence, unique physical traits, telepathy, psychometry, psychic ability, and regeneration controlled at will. These clones can also mimic the voices of others and occasionally take on another’s appearance.
Even with these major enhancements, these clones are borderline psychotic and must be kept in closed quarters.

That's it for now. ~Angela