[Doggles]

Hi this is my first post on the forum...hope everyone's OK!!!

I've read the first 2 Malazan books, think they are amazing. Quite challenging but very rewarding.

I have a question, I apologise if it has been answerd before but I couldn't find it in another thread.

In DG Kimloc tells Fiddler: '...The Prophecy of the Path of Hands. Soletaken and D'ivers. A gate promising...something. They are drawn as moths to a flame...I do not think even the Soletaken and D'ivers are fully aware of what they seek. Like salmon returning to the waters where they were born, they act on instinct, a visceral yearning and a promise only sensed...There is no unification among shapeshifters. Each stands alone. This Path of Hands...is perhaps a means to Ascendancy - for the victor...Domination of its own kind...'

The thing is Anomander Rake is a soletaken (dragon I think) and an ascendant (Knight of High House dark), so therefore would he not already have dominion over all Soletaken and D'Ivers???

Most of you guys will know if thats been resolved in a later book but it just occured to me yesterday while I was finishing DG...

[Anks]

The thing is Anomander Rake is a soletaken (dragon I think) and an ascendant (Knight of High House dark), so therefore would he not already have dominion over all Soletaken and D'Ivers???


I think that the Draconian soletakens are different from the rest -- they're all ascendants. The other Soletaken/D'Ivers are a remnant of the First Empire (correct me if I'm wrong), and they're not as powerful.

[saintjon]

Yeah there's some kind of special "Blood of Tiam" clause Rake, Osserc and Scabandari exist within. Good lord I need to reread the whole damn story again. Out of the loop for a year or two and the Bonehunters has me completely bamboozled on many points.

[kater]

Yeah there's some kind of special "Blood of Tiam" clause Rake, Osserc and Scabandari exist within. Good lord I need to reread the whole damn story again. Out of the loop for a year or two and the Bonehunters has me completely bamboozled on many points.

Throw them up on here if you like, I read it recently :)

On the D'ivers and Soletaken, I think it's more of an alternative to ascendancy as it's mentioned in one of the books as being old even in Elder times. I also think they're linked to the Beast Hold and the new occupants, saying any more would spoil it though.

Edit: Found the below link, one quote in it says the Soletaken possess the Blood of Tiam!, contains a few innocuous quotes from later books as far as I can tell, up to you if you look at it Doggles.

https://starvalddemelain.pbwiki.com/Soletaken+-+General+Information

[nerf.fiends]

I thought the Path of the Hand was a fraud set up by Iskaral Pust to mislead the shapeshifters?

[saintjon]

Yes but I think he was trying to divert from the Beast Hold that became prominent in Memories of Ice. Wow little things keep jogging my memory a bit.

I have one question, does Ascendancy have any inherent advantages in Erikson's world? I mean, I'm not sure that Anomander has any powers he wouldn't have anyways from being a superlative Tiste Andii sorceror, weilding Dragnipur and being a Soletaken dragon to boot.

Well I don't know, a lot of the gods have trippy supernatural type behaviors and abilities going on but Cotillion doesn't seem all that different from how he would have been as a mortal: an assassin who's just way deadlier than anyone else anywhere who hangs out in a certain warren quite a bit.

[Anks]

Edit: Found the below link, one quote in it says the Soletaken possess the Blood of Tiam!, contains a few innocuous quotes from later books as far as I can tell, up to you if you look at it Doggles.

https://starvalddemelain.pbwiki.com/Soletaken+-+General+Information

It seems I have some more re-reading to do :)
I don't recall reading half of those tidbits... Makes me wonder how much other useful information I've overlooked.

[kater]

I have one question, does Ascendancy have any inherent advantages in Erikson's world? I mean, I'm not sure that Anomander has any powers he wouldn't have anyways from being a superlative Tiste Andii sorceror, weilding Dragnipur and being a Soletaken dragon to boot.


Tough one, I'd say yes - particularly if you aren't a magic wielder then access to the warrens/holds grants a greater source of power. I think ascendancy is such an awkward topic because it isn't clearly explained what it is and with so many different methods to get there, it's hard to know what to make of it. Paran's quote here is the best I've seen: https://starvalddemelain.pbwiki.com/Ascendancy

The Path of Hands was a trick because the actual gate the S+D's sought was under Pust's Temple of Shadow and he had orders from ST for the gate not to be breached.

[saintjon]

*smacks forehead*

man it's almost embarassing how much I've forgotten about. That Wikipedia deal is just what the doctor ordered though. I surfed through just a fraction of it and it refreshed a lot in my mind.

[Macklyn]

What I'm not clear on is, does inclusion in the deck of dragons itself make you an ascendant?
If so, does disclusion make you not an ascendant?
'Cause we're given to believe there are quite a few ascendants that haven't yet showed up in the deck.
I'm just wondering because I don't recall it ever said straight out that Rake is an ascendant.
Or Ganoes. Both in the deck, but does that alone make them ascendants?
Doesn't ascendancy mean actually dying in the physical world and moving on to the higher plain of existance?