[Holbrook]

Not that you're not perfectly nice within your bizarre illogic, of course. ;) Apart from the odd bit of sheep torture.


But the sheep are about to get their own back !!

http://www.blacksheep-themovie.com/

[choppy]

"Mary Sue" has a rather subjective definition in my opinion and I tend not to worry about it too much. Often these types of charaters appear in the fiction of beginning or young writers as well as writers who are driven to write for purposes of escaping their daily lives.

I think there can be a lot of value in the exercise of creating a fictional world and an avatar character whom the author can place in whatever adverse circumstances they choose and then visualizing that character surviving or overcoming adversity. It can be an exercise in empowerment for people who to one degree or another feel steamrollered by the daily grind of living.

But the question is, when you write with the intention of creating a story that others would want to read, how you can avoid writing too much perfection into your characters.

The answer, I believe, lies in that writer's mantra:
1. Read a lot.
2. Write a lot.

By reading what's out there, a writer can develop a sense for what kinds of characters really work and what one fall short of holding the reader's attention. In general, a Mary Sue character, in my opinion, is one who is at the onset armed with the skills (or equipment, or clout, etc.) necessary to overcome the conflicts he or she is confronted within the story. In effect, this neutralizes the conflict before it begins and makes for a boring story.

So the trick then, is to sabotage your characters. Present them with conflicts they don't have the tools to immediately resolve. That way they grow as they experience the story.

[lin]

Every time I see the term Mary Sue defined, it's a different definition. I think it's diffused out to become so generic it just means "a lame character" or something. I've seen it brought up in 5-6 threads on various forums in the past couple of months and in every case the concerns are different.
I have been thinking it might have become a meaningless phrase. Actually, that Wikipedia definition hints at that. Stir in the one posted above and you have something pretty amorphous.

[KatG]

I see. But I love Ferris Bueller. He's a great character.

I sincerely doubt that Rob has written a character without flaws. I don't have a problem with a character based on the author, and I don't know that it's really a problem for anyone. In fact, one of the usual questions asked authors is whether they've based their main character on themselves. And as for a main character who solves whatever problem comes up, that's probably the case 8 times out of 10.

So I'm thinking there's something specific here that Rob is worried about. Worse comes to worse, give the character a drinking problem. That always helps. :)

[Bluestar]

Yeah, I don't think an author writing himself in his story is automatically a recipe for disaster, you just have to be prudent. Just because the character is based on you doesn't mean he should have an easy time of things. Just create challenges and situations you would have a hard time dealing with yourself.

The problem is really just perfect characters. A characters doesn't have to be based on you to get preferential treatment. I know I have had characters I really really liked and the temptation was there to give them more than I should. The story itself is always more important than individual characters, just make sure your characters are not becoming detrimental to it.

[Bent Arrowni]

Mary Stu as I see it is supposed to be a character with next to no flaws that is almost perfect in every way and can overcome any problem, fanfictions have many of those in numbers and are often seen as a sign of bad writing.

Its simply natural not to care about a character that can do everything.

[Rocket Sheep]

Poor Rob B.

At least we still care about you. ;)

What's the other silly thing named after a US olde comic? The one where you say something punny like:
The rock sloth nodded stonily
The tree nymph spoke woodenly

It's a Tom something isn't it?

[Rocket Sheep]

No, wait, it's a Swifty. A Tom Swift from the Tom Swift comics. The memory's not quite gone yet.

I think the confusion about Mary Sue comes from the fact that Mary Sue IS perfect and we all want to be Mary Sue-like. So a Mary Sue character as well as being the perfect character can also be the character who gets to do everything the author wants to do.

It's a Rob B... who slays dragons with his big sword.

So... what's a Pollyanna?

[KatG]

I can have a perfect character if I want to. I don't care what they do in fan fiction. All these nutty restrictions, and then we wonder why writers' works seem repetitive.

But I am still curious to learn what specifically Rob is dealing with.

[lin]

Pollyanna was the title character of a book around WW I, surviving all by her chipper attitude.

Tom Swift was the hero of a series of novels for boys. "Swifties" were a popular US joke fad for 15 minutes in the sixties.

Some of the greatest I remember:

"Damn!" said Tom, grandly but cooly.

"I can't clean out the toilet," Said Tom, undeterred.

"You're a bitch cause nobody wants to marry you," Tom told her dismissively.

"You screwed up my circumcision so I'm leaving!" said Tom, going off half cocked.