[saintjon]

It's been mentioned before that fantasy usually follows formulas and tired old stuff just keeps coming back and we need authors to get new ideas for directions to take the genre in blah,blah,blah...

But what are the options? What else could we have in fantasy? Among other ideas I've been thinking that it would be cool if one of these "I'm the best fighter who ever was but I've sworn an oath to never lift a sword again" actually kept their promise and didn't fight. FOR THE WHOLE STORY!!

As for the violence, sometimes, it adds great power to a story, but I'm finding lately that powerful writing can be of a different stripe. The real question is, if you deviated too far from the formulas would people still buy the books? It would take an author of consummate skill to shatter the "rules" of fantasy, because his book would have to be good enough to attract a huge readership so more books like that could get published. What do you all think would make a good yarn, but be break with the conventions?

[kassimir funk]

St John,

"The real question is, if you deviated too far from the formulas would people still buy the books? "

Indeed, it's hard to say isn't it. Let us first identify a few formulas. (btw I'm going to play Devil's advocate a bit)

1) Good guys are good(sometimes to a flaw, Eddard Stark) and bad guys are EVIL(almost always to a flaw)

- what would happen if the bad guys were not so evil? Maybe they just have a different set of ideals/goals. Or maybe they're just doing what anyone else would do in their situation. What if the good guys committed atrocities of their own? Would it still be as captivating to read? I'd like to think so... but then, that's just me. It's hard to say if the author would still be a bestseller.

2. Why are the bad guys always clever enough to hide a conspiracy to kill the king and take the throne and yet not smart enough to seek stability after the fact. They always want war.

3. Why is the hero always(90% of the time) true and noble? While the bad guys seem to be motivated simply by their unfaltering wretchedness.

4. Why must everything be a soap opera? (Rand and the three women, Cersei and Jaime)

5. Ever notice how the good guys tend to look on power (being the king) as a burden, while the bad guys take it as a blessing, the vast majority of the times.

6. Violence and sex. These have been staples in stories since the dawn of humankind and will likely continue to be so. You can probably argue endlessly about the detail accorded to the subjects, and how they impact the story.

-How come sex is always either lovemaking or dirty screwing. Where's the casual sex? Where's the "As soon as I'm done here I'm gonna pretend to sleep and get the hell outta here as soon as she's asleep" sex? That's REAL.

- I hate it when people say that the addition of sex and violence into a story adds to the "realism", thus making a better story. You know, people crap and piss every day. So by that reasoning, should an author decide to vividly portray scenes of characters wiping their ass with their hands, that would add to the realism? But would that make it a better story?


And now I have rambled long enough. There are probably a hundred more formulas.

I myself enjoy reading things break conventionality. But I do not necessarily LIKE them just because they do.

Bottom line... whther it be believable characters or an inovative plot, a good story is a good story.


Kassimir Funk

[Crysania]

That's why I always say it's the CHARACTERS that matter to me. I don't mind a fantasy following the same plot formula we've all gotten used to as long as the characters POP and I feel close to them and care about them. That's the gift I look for in an author.

[Steerpike]

As James Stephens(Crock of Gold) said:
Originality does not consist in saying what no one has ever said before, but in saying exactly what you think yourself.

[Qin]

I have a better solution: Get the best fantasy writers, and get them working on Star Wars books. If Stover can do it, so can the rest of them!

And who knows, maybe they'll even learn something in the process!

[saintjon]

Good replies, but what are some examples of formula-breaking story elements you'd like to see? I like the idea of a villain who seizes power and then seeks stability, that could lead to a good story. The good guys would have a hard time opposing said villain if people liked the way they rule.

[kassimir funk]

Estrang,

I'd like to see the bad guy that everybody loves. Or how about the guy who you think is a bad guy, who in fact, is merely a tool for other bad guys. Yet must still be eliminated.

I'd like to see some good guys do some seriously wicked things. Bad things that get good results. Ends justifying the means sorta deal.

Why do bad guys fight for power and good guys for justice... all the time? What if the good guys want power because they think they'll make the world a better place if they get it(or something like that)?

ideas?

Da Funk

[Bond]

Or how about the guy who you think is a bad guy, who in fact, is merely a tool for other bad guys. Yet must still be eliminated.

Well this one is pretty common--at least for someone who has played as many Final Fantasy video games as me ;-)

[Crysania]

I'd like to see an ordinary-looking woman become heroic or become a queen or maybe she IS a queen and I'd like to see her as the main love interest.

[saintjon]

Tired of busty, red-haried tavern wenches becoming queens, Crysania?