[Giarc]

Hey all,

the other day was talking with my wifey (I really need to get satellite tv) http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif and we got to discussing all the books we used to read when we were nippers (knee-high to a grasshopper) and I remembered some of the amazing fantasy books I'd read when I was a kid. Most particularly I recalled the tales of the Arabian Nights which were just outright amazing. Sinbad the Sailor, Aladin and the Lamp, the 40 thieves of Bagdhad etc etc. And then I thought it is kinda funny that, on this board, I can't recall ever seeing these stories mentioned. Have we become so narrow in our cultural take on fantasy? (not intended as a criticism really, just an observation). There are all the mythology inspired, european-based fantasy themes and stories that we discuss all the time. But what about fantasy from ancient cultures? We know some classic fantasy such as Homer's Iliad, Odyssey etc, & Vergil's Aeniad based on ancient greece and troy. What about ancient myths and legends from other lost cultures? What about fantasy stories from the Arabic world? Also the Asian cultures....I guess for me they'd have to be english translations but surely there are stories from these cultures that bear translating. How about tales of the ancient egyptians? Anyone know any good books along these lines that might otherwise get lost in the mix?
Anyways, enough rambling from me.
Cheers,
Craig

[Cadfael]

It has been mentioned in another post, that Mythology is not really fantasy, because the people of the time believed the tales, sometimes as part of their religion. Fantasy is purely for entertainment, but obviously Mythology has been used for inspiration. However I am digressing here, and I understand what you are talking about Giarc.

All the members on this forum are going to start rolling their eyes now, because I am going to roll out my old favourite...

The Mabinogion (c. 1300), translated by Lady Charlotte Guest. This is a collection of english and welsh folk tales from around the 12th -13th centuary, I understand the original work has some norse, german and other culture's mythology as well, but LSC only translated the british sections. It is 'fairly' easy to get hold of. Tolkien is know to have used this work for many of his themes.

Further info from here (http://websites.ntl.com/~ken.c/Mabinogionhomepage.htm)

[This message has been edited by dennizm (edited July 29, 2001).]

[Eventine]

Just on the topic of Arabic style fantasy stories:
In Stephen Donaldsons book of short stories Reave the Just there were several stories with a definite arabian feel. One of the most interesting was The Djinn Who Watches Over The Accursed.

[Hobbit]

Eventine - Yes - I've read that Donaldson story - thought it was quite good.

Guy Gavriel Kay's Lions of Al-Raissan also sounds similar in its Arabic theme.

Dennizm - there's a 'new' (ish) version of the Mabinogion (came out about last Christmas) with illustrations by one of the famous Tolkien illustrators I think you like - Alan Lee. It is supposedly one of his life's ambitions. You probably know about it already! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

Hobbit

[FitzChivalry]

Giarc, The Empire Trilogy by Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts comes to mind when talking about fantasy inspired by japanese culture and history.
Also, by Roger Zelazny, Creatures of Light and Darkness is based on egytptian mythology and Lord of Light is based on indian (mostly hinduism but some buddhism too) mythology.
I didn't read but was told the The Rose of The Prophet trilogy by Weis&Hickman is based in an arabian like environment.
I like more stories based on european culture and history, but i agree that there is place for more stories based on other cultures.

[Cadfael]

Hobbit... that is the version I have, I got it from my book club.

You know... I would be very intrested to take a snoop at your bookshelves, I think I may be hard pressed to tell the difference from mine http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Hobbit]

Well - there's not much bookshelf....they're double and triple stacked (it's actually the books that stop the shelves from bending I think!)but they are a constant source of inspiration being not too far away from here where I type.

BUT - like yourself, I understand - I never throw them away....

Hobbit

[Giarc]

Hey there again,

That Mabinogion sounds like a fascinating read...thanks Dennizm! I'll have to repectfully disagree with you about mythology not being fantasy though. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif Fantasy can contain elements from almost every other 'genre' in fiction (horror, mythology, science fiction, romance, thriller, war etc etc). Personally I think that separating it out from them is fairly close to impossible. Genres are a useful construct of our imagination but I don't think there is such a thing as a clearcut sparation between genres (kinda like trying to separate colors in the rainbow into the traditional ROYGBIV...useful, but what about all the shades in between?) http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif From what I see the only difference in reading a 'myth' versus 'fantasy' is that the reader is aware that once apon a time someone supposedly believed that the story was true IMO. It doesn't alter a word of the story *shrug* Interestingly enough, where does that put Arthurian legend these days? Myth, legend, or fantasy? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif I vote all three! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
I've read the empire series by Feist & Wurts and agree that it has a definite asian feel to it...and a darn good read too! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif The Lions of Al Rassan is close to being my favourite book but I like pretty much anything GGK writes http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
I haven't read any Weis & Hickman for a long while now. Maybe I'll check out Zelazny sometime...are the two books of Z's written in the first person like his amber series?
I think that if people complain that fantasy is becoming too unoriginal then fantasy books derived from different cultural roots might be a good break from the present regime. *shrug* Not that I have anything against the current style of fantasy but I've seen a lot of comments about people being annoyed with the lack of variety in modern fantasy. Just thought that this area of fantasy was overlooked somewhat http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[FitzChivalry]

Well, i agree with Dennizm that Mythology is not Fantasy, check out the relevant thread, there was a discussion about it not long ago.

About the Zelazny books, no, they are not in first person, but first person can be great too, it's all up to the author, and Zelazny is the best first person writer i read (actually, he is the best author i read period).

As for people complaining about lack of variety in fantasy... if you put the same kinds of old stories in a different world, it doesn't really solve the problem... the plotlines are the problems here, world building is less important.

[This message has been edited by FitzChivlary (edited July 30, 2001).]

[Giarc]

Exactly my point Fitz and perhaps I didn't state it with enough clarity. I'm not talking about setting books in worlds inspired by other cultures, I'm talking about using stories/plot elements etc that have arisen from them instead of rehashing the existing hero/quest formula continually. The tales of the arabian nights were so varied and clever....just thinking they are overlooked in the fantasy realm http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
As for the myth thing, I've read the other thread(s) and remain unconvinced that genres can be definitive in any sense...useful constructs for discussion yes...but in the end artificial and simplistic IMO. But at least we can all agree to disagree and have a cold one afterwards eh? http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif