[Duarh]

Just a bit. . .

Day to day, I read and review amateur fantasy. One thing comes to mind - only a small portion of all the thousands (literally) of authors who try writing fantasy will get published. A great deal (less by much than a half, of course, 'cuz most write Tolkienism/Eddingsism/Favoriteauthorism) have original ideas. And a rather notable proportion of those write long enough to gain the skills necessary to write an interesting story. Yet most of them never get published. I am just thinking about how much passes us by. If all the *right* stuff got picked up by the *right* publishing houses (the largest, Del Rey, Bantam, Harper Torch, Voyager etc) we'd have heaps of Martin/Jordan/Eddings/Goodkind/Whoever-quality stuff to read. I am constantly amazed by the new ideas and the professionalism I come across every day in people who have never published anything.

Thoughts on this?

Duarh

[Alucard]

Well, I can say that in general, most ametuers tend to write very similar to their favorite authors. It seems to me that publishers, after going through thousands and thousands of stories that already sound like something they are currently publishing can tend to get a little jaded.

Because say there is an employee working for a publishing house, going through manuscripts for new potential, and have a hundred manuscripts to look over in a particular deadline. Out of those one hundred, there might be two that are both original AND well written. Now, on a particular day, the person reading over the manuscripts may have already read through thriteen scripts that were crap. Say, number fourteen may be very good, but having already gone through so many rejections, they may not even notice the quality of the work in front of them. They may just find a few simple mistakes and pass it off as crap, just like thirteen before it. Add to this that people have bad days, or may be hungry and not thinking clearly, or any other outside interferences, it seems very possible that quality work is passed up rather frequently.

Then again, i know next to nothing about all of this having never known anyone who worked for a publishing house. This is just some thoughts on what MIGHT happen, but I have no facts to back me up.......

[FitzChivalry]

Well, now with the internet, people don't have to wait for publishers to accepts their works, there are lots of amatur writers putting their fantasy stories on the web.

Try http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/elfwood.html

For over 15,000 stories online, not to mention artwork.
Lots of bad stuff, but sometimes a gem is revealed.

[Duarh]

I'm talking about getting read, not getting your work on the net. Sure, I can put mine on any number of sites. But I want respectability http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif, which means at least a medium-sized publisher or, for short stories, a somewhat well-known magazine.

>For over 15,000 stories online, not to mention artwork.
Lots of bad stuff, but sometimes a gem is revealed.
>
Well, how many people happen to read your stuff and remember it afterwards with 15000 available? And then again, if you get mighty lucky (and are skilful as well), and get published in Asimov's SF, for instance? The difference is rather notable.

Amateur writers writing like their favorite authors - if they aren't part of any reviewing community, possible, but, unless they're very skilful, it's very unlikely they'll get published. Once you give your stuff to people to review it, well, trust me, enough people are ready to say 'it's crap' if it is ( and some are even if it isn't, and you've got to notice the difference http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif ). Myself, when I see a skilfully (from a style/grammar perspective) written amateur work, I usually also see a somewhat intriguing idea that isn't quite cliche'd. Thing is, people tend to get sick of themselves when writing cliches. (With myself, the whole point of getting across writers' blocks is realizing that you have written, and are writing, something that others haven't (well, at least the idea is new). But, if you get a writing block, and then look back on your own work and see you've read it before, it's the end http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif. Happened with parts of my novel-in-progress. The consequences - about 30,000-40,000 words cut out. That DID hurt.

Anyway, time to stop rambling,

Duarh

[pooh]

The odds are heavily against any new writer breaking into the industry. Computers make writing so much easier than it used to be, so far more people write. Also, in the U.S., anyhow, publisher consolidation means the number of outlets is shrinking.

An original work has to overcome a lot of obstacles, including those mentioned in this thread, even to be noticed.

However, something I read recently cheered me up. Scout McCloud writes that there's no better definition of an artist than someone who creates with little expectation that his work ever will see an audience.

[Cadfael]

However, something I read recently cheered me up. Scout McCloud writes that there's no better definition of an artist than someone who creates with little expectation that his work ever will see an audience.

In other words they write just for the sheer fun of it, if they have success... it is just icing on the cake. I also think when a author write for fun, more often than not... the story is very good.

[Bardos]

Duarh> What exactly IS an "amateur" writer, fo you? An unpublished one, or one who is new at writing?
For me it's the second.

And, of course, I have to agree with DennizM. If you like your story, then there is a chance that others (who probably have the same likes/dislikes with you) might like it too. If you don't like your story, but you write it because you think it is the "stuff-that-will-sell", then very few people are going to actually like it.

[James Barclay]

Writing, like music and art, is a very subjective business and there's a good amount of luck involved in getting your work taken on by a publisher.

If you think about it, you're sending your work to someone that in all likelihood you don't know, who doesn't know you and who receives dozens of such submissions every day.

An SF & F editor I know has a massive slush pile and says he could read new submissions alll day and still not get through it. And finding new talent is not necessarily the biggest part of his role - ensuring those authors he edits produce the best work they can is. After all, it's a business when all is said and done.

I think you'll find most authors would tell you they feel lucky to have been published, that other equally talented authors remain unpublished but that perhaps they had that extra belief and kept on submitting while the rejection folder got fatter and fatter. (Just ask Stephen Donaldson).

It needs to be borne in mind by any aspiring writer that if they are rejected, it is not by the whole publising house, it's by one person, with one opinion.

And I agree with the sentiment expressed above. A writer has to please themselves first or they'll never please anyone else. Being published is fabulous recognition and a huge opportunity but like in so many walks of life, not all the worthy are so recognised.

[Rob B]

(Just ask Stephen Donaldson).
Yeah he recieved I think 47 rejections before finally being picked up by Del Rey. Ironically, I just read a fairly recent on-line interview with Donaldson and he said the reason the Del Rey Editor picked his manuscript off the pile was because it was the "neatest" and he wanted something to read over the holidays.

JK Rowling also received a fair number of rejections, IIRC.

[Cadfael]

Which just shows how good the publishing houses are at deciding what we would like to read... okay... I know it is one guy in an office... but I bet a lot of these guys heads rolled when Harry Potter want into orbit (in the sky, not the publisher) http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif