[Penumbra]

It is being constantly touted that Fantasy is stale, mired in Tolkien, and SF out of believable ideas. Perhaps that is because all or nearly all the stories involve human participants. What if.....(its a big leap)
there are no humans, none wanted, only aliens? It would need a new name for the genre and it just might inspire some original thoughts. Any suggestions?

[phil_geo]

Science Fiction can never get stale because it is based on science, which is always evolving. SF authors almost never make up their concepts - things like black holes, ringworlds and faster-than-light travel all come from science.

Cyber-punk was the lastest sub-genre I can think of, and it of course came from the internet and computers rise to power. When the next big science idea comes along, sci/fi will follow. I look forward to it.

Your aliens idea is interesting - many books have been written from the aliens point of view, but they usually have humans in them somewhere.

Finally - it always bugs me when someone says "Fantasy is a stale genre" Why would fantasy be any more stale than fiction? Its like saying "You can't think of a new fiction idea, they've all been done, so it's a stale genre." Any original idea for a fiction book can be applied to fantasy. For example - a great new spy novel is released in fiction, winning all the awards. The exact same story and plot could have been written in fantasy with spells instead of hi-tech, and monsters instead of mobsters, and been a great fantasy book.

It isn't our fault a lot fantasy authors write the "Stable boy becomes a powerful wizard" story over and over.

[FitzChivalry]

I'm pretty sure there are books with not humans in them, i'm pretty sure i read some of them, but i don't remember their titles right now, in any case, it's still Sci Fi or Fantasy, just becasue it has no humans doesn't mean it's a new genre...

And yes, Fantasy is not the only genre that goes stale, other genres of fiction go stale as well.

[Lani]

I think I read some book with no humans at all too, but I'm afraid the absense of humans doesn't help because human psychology is the only one known to human, and for other species to be more different from human than by just looks and culture they would need a new way of thinking. The thinking part is the one that would be hard to make believable in the book like that.

[Sojourn]

Good points have been made. I'd like to add that it is not necessary for a whole new 'genre' to emerge in order for fantasy/sci-fi to lose its 'staleness', to use the coined term. A fresh writing style can also remove the staleness and breathe fresh life into a story with familiar (cliche?) fantasy/sci-fi elements. A good example would be George R. Martin's 'Song of Ice and Fire' series. Sure it has familiar fantasy concepts like kings, dragons, knights and supernatural foes, but his realistic (some would argue 'ultra-realistic'), no-holds-barred writing style again redefines the fantasy genre. I believe that the perceived 'staleness' of fantasy/sci-fi can be remedied from many different angles, not just the 'wipe the slate clean and start a fresh genre' method.

[Rob B]

Sojourn, haven't seen you in the forums in a while.

[Bardos]

There is no need for a new genre; thers is need for new ideas, IMHO.

[ChrisW]

Hrm what we need is no genres. How many people don't read fantasy just because the word fantasy makes people think of childrens books? Categorizing books should be banned apart from fiction and non fiction.

[Sojourn]

Yeah FitzFlagg, I had to go away and have a brief 'sojourn' (god that's so lame) in other distant lands. But I have returned. Truth be told, part of the reason I left for a while was that the forum had, IMHO, started to degenerate into petty squabbles and egomania, with people not seeming to care what others have to say and respecting their individual opinions, but rather sifting through their comments for ammunition to fire back with. This attack and counterattack got rather tedious after a while, so I took a break.

Now it seems some rules and regulations have been set up. Kudos to you FitzFlagg, and the other moderators for your intergrity and dedication to keeping this forum a 'squabble-free' place where all our fellow fantasy/sci-fi fans can discuss those things that are close to their hearts without fear of reprisal, criticism and egomania.

[Lord Raoul Za]

good idea caldie ( Za loves how most ppl in this forum respond to what they want and not the last post >: ) ). i was trying to think of what a new genre wold be called, and maybe because it is so early in the morning the answer eludes me. more people would definitely read fantasy if it were not categorised as such, but then could you truly believe that the horror and suspense fans would agree to those categories being just 'fiction' too? am i contradicting myself? i dont think so. yes i am.