[Wetware]

Absolute, iron fisted rule OF Technology itself.


This is not to say a "technocracy" which wiki defines as rule by scientist and technician.

I am speaking about rulership of humans by Ai.

So, is there a better word then "Technofascism" to describe the system of government in the Polity?

I think it is a sexy word for it.

The word "technofascism" (I think) was first coined in Alexandro Jodoroski's Technopriests, Incal, Metabaron. Alexandro uses colorful phrases in his books such as "Divine Amputation", "Techno-Techno", "Supreme Divanoid" (Ai ruler.) Jodoroski's comic books were inspired by Frank Herbert's Dune, so maybe the word was first used in Dune? Or possibly the word is in neither place and I simply made it up, I can't remember.

Does Neal Asher coin a different word to describe the Polity?

Other series have used ruling Ai as their governing force before Neal Asher, but nowhere else has the concept been so fully fleshed out. In fact, much of the main conflict in his novels is about the paradigm of Ai rulership on some level or another whether the antagonists are seperatists, or rebellious Ai, or Alien societies who refuse their own Ai. It is fairly central to his series, yet I dont have a word to describe "rulership by Ai" other then Technofascism unless that is a terrible word for it, what do you think?


It is a significant concept, one that I think about quite a bit, the main presumption being that humanity is not fit to rule itself. It is a valid presumption, especially for me since I live in America :P.

According to me anything that has an identity in Science Fiction or the real world is certainly a person, and then of course the line for me blurs between what I call a person and what I would call a human. So perhaps the point becomes moot anyhow, since Ai, according to me, is human anyhow.

I've always assumed that there is no perfect system of government beyond that of say a small tribe of a hundred people or so, when you get into billions of people on the planet no wonder things are a mess.

I am tempted to make an election sticker with the words:
"Arnold/Skynet for President!"

Okay, so enough rambling. What word is best used to describe rulership of AI?
I vote Technofascism.

[nealasher]

I note that if you look up fascism in the dictionary it is described as a right-wing nationalist, authoritarian, chauvinist hierarchical structure, ideology etc, yet the Nazis were 'national socialists'. Remove the right-wing from the description and you're describing any left-wing regime. Historically the word 'fascism' as acquired many more connotations involving jackboots, concentration camps, militarism, lack of freedom and oppression - malevolent totalitarianism - so it's not the correct word to describe the Polity. The Polity, in effect, is a benevolent meritocracy, since most people within it live in peace and plenty.

Maybe: Technotopia.

[Wetware]

Fair response.

Okay fair enough, ill ditch the word because of its connotations.
However, I lack other words that fit for me on what I consider an AI dominated government. I view the word fascism from the perspective that it includes one ruler and it is a completely totalitarian regime, where it is not up for grabs that the tyrant will ever be replaced. Where rebellion or any electoral system is never allowed. The fascist leader did not inherit the position, they claimed the position by force, and they also destroyed any means of a successor. The webdictionary and most peoples' description of this word is vastly different, so like I said I wont use it, the majority of people using a word get to define it, not me.

The question then is: as terrible as all of this sounds, what if that tyrant was superhuman in compassion? What if the constructed leader was many magnitudes smarter and more capable then any human system of government? What if humans, in the scheme of things, weren't even important enough to be given enough notice to properly Big Brother them?

I think I now remember the word meritocracy being used several times now in the Polity books. It is a beautiful idea, but when examined, who decides the merit? The individual Ai's? Earth Central? Merit as its own reward? It is a tyrant that decides the merit?

Also forgive me for being so contrary even though you suggested a good word.
It may seem like I don't want a solution. The truth is that I think the discussion is an important philosophical one, while plot and adventure are one thing and you do an amazing job of that, the real core of reading any book are the questions raised not neccesarily the answers. The questions are how a book remains with me after Ive read it, it's the highest praise I can give a book.



Thank you for responding and clarifying the word.

[nealasher]

The Separatists refer to the AI Earth Central as the autocrat, so maybe its an autocracy, which ignores the hierarchical nature of the AIs. Buy maybe take the suffix '-cracy' which basically just means type of government and you can come up with technocracy. But damn, pick up a thesaurus and you'll find loads of words that might fit to which you can stick the techno- prefix.

Of course it'll never be right because the meanings of these words are under constant revision. Consider what 'liberal' means now -- almost entirely the opposite of what it meant only a few decades ago.

[Wetware]

Of course it'll never be right because the meanings of these words are under constant revision. Consider what 'liberal' means now -- almost entirely the opposite of what it meant only a few decades ago.

If you mean "liberal" in terms of the UK meaning of the word, then I am in over my head. I know very little about the political system there.

[nealasher]

Liberals in Britain, generally, seem to want state intervention in every problem and want people to do what they're told for their own good. That seems to me just another step towards an increasingly authoritarian state. Going by dictionary definitions this might advocate reform (thought not necessarily progress) but it certainly has nothing to do with individual freedom. Really, there's not much of a divide here: left and right both favour increasing state power. The only stand against that is libertarian, and there are too few of them.

[GGS]

Semi-benevolent techno-dictatorship?

Remove the right-wing from the description and you're describing any left-wing regime. .

Neal could you give us an example of a left wing regime?

[nealasher]

Old ones like the USSR, China etc and now Europe.