It just goes to prove my theory that 90% of people have no taste.
November 2nd, 2001, 06:01 AM
Luckily we've got that 10% here, of course.
November 2nd, 2001, 10:45 AM
Shezad and Fitzflagg, you keep putting in your plugs for Mievielle (which i support) and Stover (which i will one day read!) but have either of you actually voted for them on any of these sites. Cause if you haven't, you shouldn't complain about the results they come up with!
[This message has been edited by Sam82 (edited November 02, 2001).]
November 2nd, 2001, 11:48 AM
I don't think these are the opinions of HARD-CORE fantasy readers. These are the opininons of POPULAR fantasy readers. Hard-core fantasy readers would never read such books (maybe except a couple). Hard-core fantasy readers would prefer the less-popular, but more enriching authors.
November 2nd, 2001, 04:12 PM
I don't know about that one, K-9(ups http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif)4085.
Hard-core... how does one define that one? I'm sure that mosst of these people who have voted on this particular site consider themselves to be really big (maybe even hc) fantasyfans. And I'm not trying to take that away from them.
I consider myself rather much a really hc-fantasist. I haven't read all the books on the list, most of them though (meaning that I've read "a" book or more from most series and none of Martin's or Rowlings') and I wouldn't include all of them in my list of top-20 fantasy of all time. Or the most influential ones or important. Some of them yes.
Like Shannara would be very high if one considers the impact it made, being the first of Tolklones and influencing a lot of people that way. But I'd never put Terry Brooks himself even near Top-250 best fantasy-writers.
About complaining about different results. I used to be younger and more hot-headed (and occasionally am still), condemning garbage-mongers like Brooks, Goodkind or McKiernan to the deepest pits imaginable (and I can imagine quite a Lot!). I could imagine myself attacking this kind of list with venom and "rightheous" anger and fury, declaring some of the books and authors to be unworthy to be spat upon.
But I have changed. A bit. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
This List, as well as many more on the net and elsewhere, tells us that there are lot of fantasyreaders who love these books. Nothing more, nothing less. It's their prerogative.
On the other hand, we can discuss whether these readers have read fantasy extensively (or how old they are etc.). I'm not surprised that such imaginative classics as King of the Elfland's Daughter or Jürgen are missing from the list, although it saddens me http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/frown.gif Neither is there a single book by C.S. Lewis' (Narnia) or Ursula K. LeGuin (Earthsea). Besides Tolkien and his copy-cat Brooks, all the books are more or less written from late-80's onward.
All the books are more or less huge, high fantasy -trope series. Basically the biggest sellers and also the most conventional and least exiting ones. Plus the All-Father http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
What more is missing? Guy Gavriel Kay. Jorge Luis Borges. Neil Gaiman. David Gemmell. Mervyn Peake (Ghod!). Sean Stewart. R.A. MacAvoy. Tim Powers. Jack Vance. Gene Wolfe. Robert E. Howard. Robert Holdstock. Charles de Lint. Fritz Leiber. Roger Zelazny... And these are just the one's on the tip of my tongue. Surely some of these authors deserve better?
I'm not certain what I really wanted to say, but one thing I'm certain of: J.R.R. Tolkien is not under-rated. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif Long live the king!
November 2nd, 2001, 05:53 PM
I had no idea that there were so many fantasy elitists here. I didn't realize that there were two different classes of fans.. the hard core, and the much maligned popular group. Out of all the groups of people I've known, fantasy fans are usually the most accepting and cool with others, so I find the comments on this post disappointing. I read and liked almost all the authors on that list, so should I feel like a lower class fantasy reader? What exactly do you mean by good taste in fantasy? Give me book titles, and I'll read them, but refrain from insulting my taste until then.
November 3rd, 2001, 04:35 AM
Sammie: In a word Yes. Well, the few times I have actually gone and voted on these things. I wasn't really complaining.
I wouldn't say hard-core fans. Hardcore has been a pretty overused term lately. Different books and writers have different audiences, I think thats what it comes down to.