[JohnH]

While many here continue to bemoan fantasy being derivative and formulaic, for me it has expanded to tremendous reach and depth compared to the days when the only thing on the shelves were Brooks and reprints of Tolkien.

Several other threads touch on this particular subject matter. Usually the whole idea of sex and its place in fantasy.

But what else is missing? In general at least. What do authors overlook or gloss over in their creations?

Many complain about Jordan not having an organized religion. Something that not only does not bug me (never really noticed it was not there until the whin- well until it was pointed out), but I actually found refreshing. Too many authors (Feist for one) get caught up in their own creative flow and end up producing flat and derivative gods and goddesses.

But perhaps a sense of a real religion is something many of you find lacking in today's fantasy?

For me it is food. Go ahead; laugh. But on the eve of Thanksgiving here in the US, it occured to me that food is often overlooked. It might serve as a device to regroup after an action scene. It might be used to portray and prject the level of suffering and need the characters are going through. Often it is used as a source of establishing a comfort level or a measure of reasonable care for the characters.

But food is so often pedestrian and dull. It is often humble or exotic for the sake of being exotic. McKillip used food in The Book of Atrix Wolfe rather well. Fanciful and yet mouthwatering. How many conversations revolve around food? Perhaps not many of some of you. For me, I am a social animal and food serves much a part of that. Dining out is social; mutual appreciation of good food a must. Finding a wonderful sushi place for lunch in the Phoenix area last week was a most satisfying discovery and one that was savored all the more doing so with new found friends. Same can be said for yet another lunch over frozen margueritas and mexican food. Dining in also serves the same way. Gathering friends means arraying food (and alcohol usually).

Yet food is servicable at best in most fantasy. In many ways it is almost as ignored as the characters actually going to the bathroom (though this necessity is something that I don't think is overlooked -- somehow the aspect of say Frodo looking for a soft leaf while meeting nature's regard in the midst of fleeing the Nazgul is not very appealing).

So what do you find missing in an author's attempt to portray a world that is both full and complete?

[Bardos]

Food's a good idea! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

Another thing I've noticed is that all of fantasy novel describe a large period of crisis in the fantasy world --usually, a great war, or the possible end of the world. And, by doing this, the authors overlook other aspects of life. You see the characters running around, rallying armies, trying to recover "items of power", discovering powers that will help, etc, but you never see them in a more "normal life" (whatever "normal life" is in that certain fantasy world). I find it refreshing when the author writes about a bit of normal life of his characters or his world, generaly.

Religion: must exist or must not, according to the world you're writing about. Though, if you are refering to some kind of religion, then explain what it is!
One kind of religion type that is overlooked nowadays is the, uhm, "beast-gods Religion", where the people worthship a certain magical (?) beast, near the area, b/c they fear it.

Poltics. Yes they use politics, but don't show us how they happen. What I mean: e.g., Jordan tells us that in Cairhien (sic) there are many machinations, but never shows us the exact machinations! (at least until book 5 and 300 of book 6, I've read) It would be nice to see kings talking about their realms, diplomats, etc.

[Penumbra]

An interesting line of thought. When I wrote The Zusalem Chronicles, I paid only small attention to food, though I did use it. But not with the possibilities you have mentioned. I did employ religion and politics, war, terrorism of a kind and a good deal of mythological inferences. But the awesome global impact of food and its impact has been mostly neglected by me until now. Thanks for a stimulating idea. I will use it in the future. BTW, the 1st Zusalem novel is called The Find and is out now at iuniverse.com. The 2nd in the series is being published as we speak and called Pathandu. In this novel, I do make mention of some typical Tibetan dishes, notably tsampa which is roasted barley and buttered tea. I hope you read it some day.

[Bardos]

Another overlooked element I thought now, is bathing!

They must all be stinking in fantasy!!

http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Alucard]

Food is a very good point, theres a lot of room for development there.

I would say hygiene is often overlooked. For people that don't brush their teeth regularly, and probably don't eat tremendous amounts of greens, a lot of fantasy characters, especially the older ones, still seem to have a healthy mouth of teeth. Bone disease would also be common, as well as the loss of limbs to rot and bacteria. And without sterilization, there would probably be many more deaths, even from very minor wounds. Some authors keep all of this in mind, but not very many.

But in another light, sometimes its nice that such things are omitted. If you only read about people with rotten teeth and bone diseases, that smelled like hell and had probably aged terribly due to malbutrition and harsh enviroments, it might not as much fun. In some ways, I think it's a blessing that some of these kind of things are left out. . .

[Sojourn]

I'm of a mind with Alucard. Somehow all this scrutiny seems kind of... unnecessary (no offence JohnH! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif ).

However, I loved the part JohnH brought up on the significance of food in fantasy stories. It got me thinking about how food (or the lack of) played a crucial role in portraying the futility and desperation of Frodo and Sam's journey to Mordor and finally Mt Doom. Having just finished reading 'The Return of the King', I couldn't help but feel their hunger and thirst, and how precious their meagre store of food and water was to them. The energy-(and hope)giving properties of the Elven lembas was highlighted even more so than before. And when dear Sam sacrificed his share of their food and water to Frodo so that he would have the strength to go on, I was very touched.

Now THAT was perhaps my clearest and finest example of how food made the tale so much more 'human'. Like JohnH, I love my food, and yes, food is the grease that keeps the social wheels turning smoothly.

[Valada]

An interesting point about Tolkein. I remember saying to a friend that one of my strongest memories of the Hobbit et al (for who-knows-what reason) was a constant reference to how they had to tighten their belts because they were hungry. My friend had no memory of it! (Who knows, maybe I'm wrong).

[alison]

This discussion encourages me greatly. I've just finished my first fantasy novel (out next year, but only in Australia) and - yes - I devote a fair bit of attention to food and also to bathing, amid the adventures. My heroine is rather fond of baths. But it's partly that wanting it to be real amid the marvellous - and that even the mundane can be marvellous. I've been using an old cookbook for ideas, and also Gerard's Herbal and other things. I guess I also want that willing suspension of disbelief. But maybe it just reflects my own pleasures...

Alison

[Valada]

Hey Alison, congrats on the novel. Don't forget to warn us when it comes out and tell us what it's called so we can all have a read (and get those royalties flowing!). There are quite a few of us Aussies on the board.

[alison]

Thanks - I will! The first instalment's called The Gift, out with Penguin around May, (my authorname is AJ Croggon). Of course, it's planned to be a trilogy, but the main challenge was to make the book a read in its own right.

My first ever ambition was to write a fantasy novel, after I read TLOTR when I was ten, but I forgot about it for a couple of decades - but it was such fun writing it. Yes, lots of food and baths, but my heroine is pretty cool, I reckon (well, I would) and lots of adventures. But NO elves or dwarves... hard to remove the stain of Tolkien from them these days, I think. Can't wait to see the actual object...
It's beginning to happen, and I'm getting excited.

Anyway, enough about me.

Regards

Alison