[Arith]

Hi guys. Im new to this forum and im curious about something. Ive seen several posts where people have mentioned alot of the "main-stream" fantasy series like Wheel of Time and Riftwar and referred to them as bubblegum type fantasy books. This seems like quite a putdown for books that are keeping this genre in the public eye. I was curious what authors or series you guys consider "bubblegum" fantasy and what you consider hard core gritty fantasy and why? Thanks guys, im looking forward to the responses.

[This message has been edited by Arith (edited November 09, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Arith (edited November 09, 2001).]

[k4085]

bubble-gum fantasy (I like the term):

Robert Jordan, David Eddings, Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, Piers Anthony, Stephen Donaldson, Raymond E. Feist.

hard-core fantasy:
Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Roger Zelazny, Patricia McKillip

These are all authors I have read, btw, though a lot of couldn't finish. I'm not going to list the authors I have never read.

[k4085]

I forgot to say why: I think they're bubble-gum fantasy because once you read a few of those books, you get bored of them because they are so repetitive and you know what's going to happen in them. I actually enjoyed reading them when I first started reading the genre. Now I can't read past the third chapter.

The hard-core fantasy is more original. Jack Vance was the first hard-core fantasy i read. His Lyonesse Trilogy was so fresh that it was hard to put down. I can't believe Anne MaCaffrey once tried to compare Stephen Donaldson's Covenant series with Jack Vance (They don't believe in the same sentence).

[allanon]

I don't think so. Zelazny is also very repetative ,most of his characters are the exact copy of each other-Corwin/Merlin/Jack of Shadows/Kai-Ren the DemonLord etc.
Vance is one of the silliest authors,I've ever read.
And you say that Jordan is predictable. What will happen in the next book,eh?
I think that this bubblegum-hard,super is an extremely stupid idea.
F.ex.-I love Eddings. Many people said that he is "bubble-gum".
My favourite author is Martin. Most of the people said that he is God and I agree.

So?

[Master Rahl]

bubble-gum fantasy (I like the term):
Robert Jordan, David Eddings, Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, Piers Anthony, Stephen Donaldson, Raymond E. Feist.

you say goodkind is bubble gum what about when Warren died? that was the saddest part ive ever read in a story he was my favorite character in those books then he just dies. And what about when khalan gets the **** kicked out of her ya that was a really happy part right there

[Arith]

Do get me wrong guys, i dont agree with splitting Fantasy novels into two categories. I personally loved The first few Sword of Truth Books and the first few Wheel of Time books but became disinterested after a while. Martin is god, his stories are the best ive ever read. I came to this forum to get new ideas and find out about new authors. Im already planning on buying the "Gardens of the Moon" based on comments ive seen here but i think its a bad idea to generalize and put fantasy authors into two camps and i was surprised to see that happen in quite a few posts here. I think that without more mainstream authors like Goodkind and Fiest, that tend to gather a huge fan base, there would not be more oscure authors. Someone needs to turn people onto the the fantasy genre. I admit, i mainly read what some of you call "bubblegum" fantasy but its also helped open my horizons a bit and now im interested in looking into other authors that i am unaware off, thats why im here. Thanks for the replys guys, keep em coming. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Arith (edited November 10, 2001).]

[Sammie]

I don't think ther ARE 2 categories. Surely its a continuous spectrum. All lovely and happy and light going at one end, and pretty darn miserable and intense at the other...?

[k4085]

It's really hard to blame some authors though. They know their work will not be published unless they go mainstream. It's all a matter of economics. Piers Anthony once admitted he was under heavy pressure from his publishers to write what the public wants and not to stray away from the Xanth formula. He said he admired Jack Vance and his ability to write with so much freedom. You got to give Piers Anthony, David Eddings, etc. a lot of credit for stimulating interest in the public to the fantasy genre. Otherwise the genre may not survive.

As for Jack Vance, I have not enjoyed all his works. He has written junk before also. Even James Joyce has wrote junk before. I have not been able to finish some of his novels, especially his more recent ones like Nightlamp, Throy, and Ports of Call to name a few. He is approaching 80 and going blind after all.....

[Meraxes]

It is absolutely about economics. It's not as if people like Jordan and Goodkind, et al. cannot write better than they do - it's a matter of them being practical (or whoring themselves, if you're a person who likes to use such terms) and making books that will get them their money. I enjoy Goodkind and Jordan - I have all the books they've written to this point in their respective series. A lot of people enjoy them. Publishers know this - that's why they get published and sell millions of books.

As for the two camps - I've never seen it that way and I think it's fairly pretentious for a reader to make such statements. Everyone enjoys something different, afterall.

- M

[allanon]

The problem is-the first books of WoT are HardCore. The last are BubbleGum.