[Billy]

Does anyone else find the use of exclusively evil races in some Fantasy rather annoying. It seems strange to me that a race could be exclusively evil, and that they'd just end up going to live up north (as it so often seems to be) in their own in a land of evil. It's even worse when they actually seem to see themselves as evil, but think that's the right way to be. Feist, from what I remember, is particularly guilty of this with the Moredhel and trolls etc.
Do I have a point, or am I just wasting space?

[Eventine]

A recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/news/0112/13/opinion/opinion3.html

and the responses:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0112/13/opinion/opinion100.html

[Barbarossa]

Couldn't agree more Billy, at least with Tolkien Orcs were basically slaves of Morgoth and later Sauron. Independently thinking races that think of themselves as evil are simply ridicolous.

Eventine I opened a new thread for discussing those articles because I think that will lead away from this threads intention.

[Louis]

Surely having consciously evil races is simply an extension of having consciously evil people. If the idea of a person or group of people who consciously chose to be 'evil' is ok, for instance Sauron in LotR, then why not a whole race? That's presuming that the whole race _is_ evil which I tend to doubt personally.

Louis

[Barbarossa]

But does even Sauron see himself as evil?
Personally I would say, propably not.

[jbcohen]

I ahve found some books where the evil characters are not always evil but can be good races in latter books in the series. Without having read the novels or spoiling them I can not say more.

Some I have found have a tendency to be on both sides of the good/evil divide at the same time.

[Bardos]

Not absolutely related to the topic, but....
I like characters who, at the begining, are supposed to be the bad guys and, later, turn out to actually be not that bad.

MINOR SPOILER FOR THE BLACK COMPANY
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E.g., the Lady.
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SPOILER END.


Concerning evil races: Who told you that the orcs think themselves as evil??? We don't know what the orcs think themselves. Tolkien, althought he uses the omniscient pov, never lets ous in the minds of orcs --we never know their deeper thoughts. So, we actually see them through the eyes of the good guys...

[Billy]

I never said said the Orcs think of themselves as evil. However, unless I'm very much deluded (which is always a possibility) the Brotherhood of the Dark Path in Feist's stories do.

[Billy]

Okay, moving on somewhat from my original point somewhat, what about the often divisive nature of these different races. By this I mean the way they are often separated into their own separate kingdoms, with Elves living apart from Dwarves living apart from Humans.

[Metosblat]

That is probably the biggest reason why I hated Feist