[Angelesque]

I was reading through the post on Eddings and wondered what people's opinion on "real life" in fanasty was.

Eddings says he wanted to get away from Tokkien's "prissiness" (there ARE no girl hobbits) and show that woman do exist from the neck down.

Yet to some degree I find Eddings as "prissy" as Tokkien. I have read all the Garion and the Sparhark books and have just finished Althalus and although women *do* figure largely in his books, the interaction between male and female is still stilted IMO.

I do not think that gratuious sex is a good idea, because this immediately limits readership. However why can't more fanasty authors write romance along with their action? They want us to sympathise with their characters and while male readers like the sword and sorcery, this female reader would prefer a little more emotionalism.

Anyway, what is everyone else's opinion on this?

Just wonderin',
Angel

[Bardos]

I agree with you.

[Rob B]

Angelesque: There is a pretty active debate on this a few topics down:
Sex in Fantasy (http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000888.html)

[jbcohen]

The very reason why I read fantasy novels is to escape what you are advocating. I read to get away from the real world into a world that is totally unlike my own, or may be unlike my own. Put it another way I am looking to take a break from reality and escape. If you make fantasy novels conform to reality I will simply stop reading hte novels and go in search of other novels that will take ma away.

I also like exploring other worlds where the laws of physics, as we know it, may or may not apply. There could jsut as easily be shape shifters or other monsters thoughout the novels.

Shape shifters are rather prelevant in our society. Some of the Star Treck shows have them and some cartoon characters are shape shifters as well (however for limited periods of time).

[wastra]

I think it depends. I think there is some reference to seedier topics in Tolkien- Turin, in the Silmarillion, gets his sister pregnant, for example- naturally, he does not graphically describe the act...

Of course, it's a different time now. In Tolkien's era, books, movies, etc did not openly portray or graphically describe such subjects. We live now in a very graphic, "realist" type of environment where "grittier" means "better." There is something to be said for both.

[Aylis]

I always thought of fantasy as "unreal"...Anyways maybe I'm just a weird girl or something, but if I tend to like the whole sword and sorcery deal with all those battles n stuff....as for romance, I'd be thrilled if there was absolutely none of it in the books I read..however, it's unavoidable, there's always some type of romance no matter how subtle...=(

[estranghero]

I think that's the problem facing the fantasy genre (pardon the words):

HOW CAN YOU IMPROVE SOMETHING THAT'S BASICALLY ESCAPIST FARE?

Escapist fare isn't supposed to challenge you. That's why fantasy and "real life" writings have a hard time mixing. I guess the closest you can get is Perdido Street Station. But it's heavy stuff. (That includes gratuitous sex and violence...)

Romance, I think, fits more into the category of the escapist fare though it's true that nobody really thinks of the potential in combining in the two. Or else the readers haven't yet discovered.

[Aylis]

I don't think fantasy is the only 'escapist fare' though. I have friends that read these romance novels and from the way they describe them and react to them, it seems like pretty escapist stuff to me. I dunno, personally I think that if you want lots of romance, just go read those books. Oh, in case you were wondering, the romance books my friends read are the depressing ones that have titles like 'I hope I don't die tomorrow' or 'I don't want to die' or something like that. They're all by the same author. No I'm not saying all romance books are like that. It's just the ones they read...

[jbcohen]

For me fantasy novels are not a way to escape so much as a way to take a breather from reality. I do not seek to escape anything, least of all my problems, but sometimes it helps to put things in perspective reading these novels.

[Caly]

I do not think fantasy as a whole is escapist literature. A lot of it is, but there are also many authors who use the fantasy vehicle to deliver very seroius ideas. Sheri S. Tepper is a prime example. I think she is a bit bizarre but most people think she is an excellent author. Most of her books deal very seriously with sexism and the enviroment. Melanie Rawn also deals with feminist themes in her Exiles series, but it was so heavy handed that I never finished the second book in the series. GGK has weighty themes in his books, as does Jan Seigal, Juliet Mariller, and others.

As for sex in fantasy--I wish there was more of it. Not that I want porno scenes or something, but sex is a natural part of life and in most fantasy books I've read the human characters act like humans. Humans like sex. Humans do strange things in the name of sex. If they authors are going to have characters old enough to shave they should have at least some thoughts of sex.

Actually a lot of the better authors do include sex as an integral part of the plot. Not that they show the characters writhing around in a fit of lust (usually), but sex does play a part. I'm reading Deverry atm and sex plays a major part. Without some incest happening the story never would have taken place. Not that I want to read about incest, but it does happen. I just finished reading the Nightrunner series and the main character has issues with his sexuality. The readers don't see too much of his sex life, but the sexual tension is there and it makes the story seem more realistic. Now, I know it has been argued many times that fantasy can't be realistic by the very virtue of it being fantasy, but I think that is a bunch of hogwash. The worlds of fantasy are fantastic but human nature is what it is. Unless the author creates a race that is not interested in sex I think it is very realistic to include at least some sex.

Caleyna