[Caitlin]

Another too-many months have gone by - a blur, but a thoroughly happy one. My troublesome third novel's growing nicely and is now at about 75K words. And I'm preparing to teach a fall course at the university: a lecture- and interview-based one which'll see me talking about and to six pretty prominent Canadian genre authors: Guy Kay, Robert J Sawyer, Robert Charles Wilson, Tanya Huff, Karl Schroeder, and a writer-to-be-named-later. I'm a little wracked (the idea of talking about an author's work with said author sitting in the audience in front of me is pretty knee-wobbling) but also terribly excited.

Meanwhile, I've been meeting with groups of past students fairly frequently. One of these groups is something I think of as my "Dream Team": the best couple of students from each of my classes, plus a friend who's never taken a workshop course before. And herein lies the problem, and the point of this new thread. We've had three meetings now (at three different pubs!), and I've been thrilled with each of them - but my friend's been horrified. She's never shared her work with anyone except her family members and me, but she's determined to pursue publication. I urged her to join this group; said it would be a perfect place in which to begin the process of getting feedback on her work, getting it "out there" in a limited but real way. Except that it's distressing her to the point of creative paralysis. The critiques of her stuff have all been balanced and fair, and some have been truly insightful, but she's come away deeply disturbed by it all.

I want to encourage her to keep at it, but I'm also keenly aware that I myself am deliberately not workshopping my work-in-progress. Yes, too many voices can confuse issues that might come clear all on their own, and picking apart a work a chapter at a time, without a larger context, can be an exercise in frustration more than a valid form of critique. But...? What does everyone think about workshopping? And what do I tell my suffering friend??

[Radthorne]

As with so much of the writing craft (outline versus organic, single POV versus multi POV, etc.) a lot depends on how the individual's creativity works best. Quite a few writers swear by workshops and writing groups, and for many it is the best way to get substantive feedback from people who understand writing and what the problems might be with a story. I've done critique sessions for several years at one of our big local cons, and hopefully it's been of some help to the writers who have gone through it. But (there's alway one, isn't there?) it's not the best approach for everyone.

It seems to me that your friend is perhaps very sensitive to the public nature of the critique process. It's always hard to hear one's stuff talked about, but if someone is too upset by the public airing of issues then there are other approaches.

I've tried doing a writer's group for my work, and it just didn't pan out for me (not because of the public nature of it; the group's creative ideas and mine were just not in sync). What I've found instead is that I have a couple of people whose opinions I not only trust, but who are spot on with their analysis. Such are not easy to find, of course; one of the two is someone whom I have paid to edit the book I'm just now wrapping up. But the expense has been more than worth it, for the experienced viewpoint and assistance I've received. It sounds like your friend needs to go this way, and be prepared to spend some money perhaps to get that experienced feedback (since as you know, she has to have feedback from somewhere; she can't write in a vacuum or only with the opinions of well-meaning friends as input).

[Caitlin]

You're absolutely right, Radthorne: creativity and vacuums don't mix. You're also right that workshops aren't for everyone - and I think I need to take a step back and figure out how much of my motivation is altruistic (you'll be a better writer! You'll be prepared for the "real world"!) and how much is selfish (let me be the means of your introduction to the real world!).

Your paid editor suggestion was extremely interesting. Sadly, this particular friend is a starving student who can hardly afford to feed herself. But the suggestion has definitely made me want to think of more alternatives for her.

[Radthorne]

Another approach to consider (if you can get enough people rounded up to participate) is a write-in writer's group, with people mailing (or more likely e-mailing) their manuscripts to the group. If you set this up as a formal group (rather than a broad-based Internet population), and are able to do vet who joins, it can also work. You lose the spontaneity and interaction of the in-person group, but perhaps your friend could better deal with the analysis of her work when it's a little more impersonal.

[Caitlin]

You lose the spontaneity and interaction of the in-person group, but perhaps your friend could better deal with the analysis of her work when it's a little more impersonal.
You're right about this too. My first (and only real) workshopping experience was in 2000 on the Del Rey Online Writers' Forum. I posted the first three chapters of A Telling of Stars, and I bit my nails and paced, and when the responses started coming in I was able to read and process them without having anything feel personal. As it turned out, this was where I met Scott Bakker and Karin Lowachee, still two of my closest writer friends, so it was definitely a good experience!
As for my friend: she finds the face-to-face critiques easier to handle than the written ones. Maybe because this is a relaxed, chatty group, so criticisms get smoothed over by general friendliness, whereas the written ones get taken home to be pored over without benefit of banter or back-and-forth.
A complicated issue. So much hinges on group dynamics and individuals' confidence...

[KatG]

Caitlin -- good to hear that things are going well!

Your friend sounds definitely not ready for a writing group, and probably not ready to go out there in the market yet, either. It just may not be a process that works for her. It is a different thing to have people who are trying to write talk about writer stuff concerning your work, as if they are invaders, than having friends and family read it and just say they like it or not. Some writers really have to shut themselves away, but your friend seems to be asking for help.

So these are the things I would suggest:

1) She does, if you're willing, one on one critiques with you only for her work for a bit, which will get her used to the idea a little more.

2) She participates in the writing group as a critiquer, not a writer, if it's okay with your group. She doesn't show her work to the group, only critiques theirs. This will give her more experience critiquing and looking at work analytically, and the experience of giving notes and comments to someone else and understanding what goes into that, may then help her get more comfortable eventually receiving notes on her stuff.

3) You guys figure out where in her writing process analysis would be of most use to her. For some writers, critiquing at the draft stage just completely messes them up. They only need it in the revision stage or the final stages of developing the work. For others, they really need it during the first draft stage and then not at all after that. So it may be that she's coming into this group at the wrong stage for her, and if she has different pieces, that the more finished pieces would be easier for her to get critiques on, especially with lots of beer, fried foods and chocolate desserts.

I'm still figuring out what works for me. I've had a few people look at very first draft material, and have usually gotten useful material out of it, but I don't know that I could workshop something until it was at a later stage. Let your friend know that this is not a deficiency in her as a writer, but merely a part of figuring out what the best writing process for her is.

[Caitlin]

1) She does, if you're willing, one on one critiques with you only for her work for a bit, which will get her used to the idea a little more.
We've been doing this, and it's been working very well - definitely better than the full-group workshopping thing...

2) She participates in the writing group as a critiquer, not a writer, if it's okay with your group.
So funny - this came up at our last group meeting, totally independently of my friend and her reservations/needs (which no one knows about except me). The consensus was that it was more than OK for someone to critique, not submit. In fact, this came up because of ME - because I critique but don't submit!

For some writers, critiquing at the draft stage just completely messes them up. They only need it in the revision stage or the final stages of developing the work.
Ånd that would be me. Yup. I've never, ever submitted a viable, in-progress work to any kind of critique (except my agent's). So really: how can I command someone else to do this?

Figuring out what the process will be for her - that's what it's about. It's NOT about my more-than-somewhat self-indulgent delight in my own Machiavellian writers' workshop machinations. (Though it is terribly fun.)

Thanks, KatG and Radthorne. I feel much less conflicted about this now.