[Peregrine]

It was asked Who Does Tolkien Well? and most of the answers were who does Tolkien not so well.

So I wonder - is modern fantasy now actually hindered by the shadow of Tolkien and the expectation that fantasy ought to match his style and content? Is his monolithic presence acutally a shadow for the modern fantasy writer to labour out from under?

Any thoughts?

[wastra]

Great topic of discussion, Peregrine.

I think Fantasy has become too enamoured of Tolkien. I'm easily a die-hard Tolkien fan, but I'll admit that his shadow has been so hard to escape that it has, in some ways, not only spurred the growth of modern fantasy, but retarded that growth as well. Though not the professor's fault, his influence has been so large that the vast bulk of pop-fiction fantasy is a pale imitation of his themes. Little guy journeys across the world to become a powerful fighter/warrior/mage to defeat an ancient and evil being of great power...oh how many more times will we read this story interspersed with kingdoms of elves in the forests, dwarves under the mountains, trolls/elves/goblins, etc as the big evil race?

As it stands, I purposefully avoid any fantasy that relies on these 'standards' any longer. While Tolkien has motivated the fantasy world, writers have been unable to escape that influence, and rather have become mired in HIS world, though names be changed.

Is it so hard to find another setting, or new Themes?

I've started writing again after about a year. I've set my story in Victorian Europe, no elves, no dwarves, nothing along those lines. Yes, it is still fantasy.

[This message has been edited by wastra (edited October 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wastra (edited October 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wastra (edited December 10, 2001).]

[Alucard]

I, for one, have certainly grown tired of the Tolkien style fantasy stories. I'm not a big fan of tolkien, so this is definitely part of the reason. I have nothing against elves and dwarves and dragons, i have no problem with adventure stories. In fact, I like them, but it can certainly get old.

I find myself much more drawn to less formula stories, where you never know exactly what to expect. I love a book that is full of things that I would have never thought of myself, where the story could go in any direction, where the settings and events are just as interesting as the characters. When people regurgitate the same themes time after time, the settings become more of the "same old" and not so "fantastic", and all that you have left is whether or not the characters are very good. In a lot of formula fantasy, characters are really the deciding factor in whether or not the book is good(Imo, of course). But if you break the mold, then you could have the setting and the characters feel equally fresh and exciting, making for a much more absorbing read.

I don't think that the classic "small town boy saves the world from great evil witht the help of elves and dwarves" formula should be done away with, but unless this formula is handled very well, it's just mundane and repetetive. So, in summary, I'm all for authors who use new themes...

[Sojourn]

Yes, new themes would be a welcome breath of fresh air. I would also like to suggest that maybe not ONLY new themes are necessary for fantasy to detach its apron strings from Tolkien, but also new writing styles, metaphors, analogies etc. For elaboration, please refer to my post under the 'Is a New Genre Possible?' thread.

[Cadfael]

I agree... I am a die hard fan of Tolkien, but I want more than the usual 'classic' fare... more to the point, I want the choice.

A few years ago, it was a very brave author who broke away from the traditional, and only a few managed to pull it of. Now the genre is being developed more. I have been reading the genre for 30 years, and I am enjoying some of the recent offering with a passion I have not felt for years.

Okay... I will still read the traditional type of book... but I am now open, and eager to read other types... and this forum has helped with that.

One thing I am worried about, is that with the release of TLOTR's movie, we will be inundated with 'commercial' fantasy, this almost killed of the SF genre IMHO.

[Lord Raoul Za]

you become a benchmark, and everybody gets compared to you.

when will we see the next benchmark? will, in 30 years, somebody be saying oh, he is the best new author since martin, or gemmel, or jones.....

is there somebody out there now with the originality and blatant writing skill that could define a new benchmark?

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

I am a die fan of Jordan and a big fan of Feist and Eddings!
And I know one thing: every modern author is better than Tolkien! Every! Even the sex guy Goodkind!

[Bardos]

That was a joke, right?

[Belgarion]

Nope, Bardos, it is not a joke.

I appreciate you find it hard to understand why people can like Goodkind, Tolkien or Eddings.

That is because everyone has different taste and there is no such thing as a joke when it comes to someone liking a particular book.

Be a bit more broad-minded Bardos. Your anti-Tolkien/Goodkind/Eddings is getting a bit thin now.

[allanon]

Right,Belgarion.
And IMHO,Tolkien today is only shadow,nothing more.