[Mark13]

1. Not enough descriptive writing. Many authors skimp on this. Some actively avoid it. They take the attitude that all fantasy readers know what a beggar or a temple looks like, so why describe it? Of course, I don't want to hear about the length of the bleeding hangnails on the hero's thumb, but at least put some effort into colorful settings! This is fantasy! You need lots of color and immersive detail.

2. Modern dialogue. I hate it when the characters of a fantasy novel talk just like modern people. Perhaps nothing bothers me more. I'll stop reading a fantasy book right away if someone uses modern sounding language. All those 'hard-boiled detective' fantasy stories are big offenders. If your characters are rogues and scum, make them sound like fantasy rogues and scum, not like the guys down at the local strip club. Pure laziness!

3.Aristocratic 'good' vampires, noble orcs with a warrior's code of honor, etc. Political correctness is more than enough in reality. Lets leave the imaginary villainous races as villains, ok? They are imaginary, after all. They won't be offended by negative stereotyping.

4. Immature, wimpy heroes. Sure, it's alot easier to show character development if you start with a moronic swineherd, but they sure are a pain to read about. On the other side, I also hate smug, super-confident characters who have no doubts at all about winning.

5. Use of stock fantasy beings like orcs, elves, dwarves, dragons, etc. Where's the imagination in trotting out the dwarves yet again? Lazy! To my horror, I once read an article where the author was claiming that writers should stick to these immediately recognizable beings, to make the readers comfortable. :eek:

Also, let's include the typical forests and castles setting of medieval Europe or Middle Earth. Been there, done that.

6. Fantasy races directly based on historical cultures, especially when not set in our world. When I want a historical novel, I'll read one. Some of these stories are good, but most are not. These stories mainly seem to be done by people who want to write a historical novel, but don't want to do all the research. Why do all nomads have to be just like the Mongols, or all barbarians like Celts or Vikings? Why not invent something completely original?

7. Covers like these:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hr3SppbIL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qiqr653LL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_t68ar0SFX54/R0g83VWRq9I/AAAAAAAAAns/0ZP6bpINRio/s320/GardensoftheMoonreissue.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41aNLRjFdrL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

Note that I am not touching on the content of these books. Some are good, some are bad, some stink. I'm just talking about the covers.

I'm seeing more and more of these drab, monochromatic covers, usually in pea-soup green or flaming orange, that say: "I am not like those lurid fantasy books you read as a kid. You can read me on the bus or the plane without feeling embarrassed! You can feel just like the big people reading John Grisham or Thomas Harris or Dan Brown. I am a serious, adult-oriented book!"

If I was an author and my wonderful book that I had put so much effort and imagination into had one of these monochrome mainstream-looking things slapped on it, I'd want to die. They are unimaginative and drab and give the books the look of disposable product for the masses.

Give me good old painted covers like those done by Frank Frazetta, Darrel Sweet, or Josh Kirby any day.

8. Stories that can't be told in 1-3 books of approximately 300-500 pages probably aren't worth telling.

9. Stories that are trying to push a political or religious doctrine. I really don't like fantasy as propaganda.

[Zedar]

Just to be contradictory...

1. Too much descriptive writing. Give me enough to picture a scene, don't spend several paragraphs describing each room entered. Give me enough description to I can set the scene, don't give me a picture perfect description of every place visited.

2. Flowery dialogue with invented words. I like dialogue I can just read and understand, nothing worse than havingn to pause after each line of a conversation to try to decipher what was actually said. And the less said about authors who invent new words for existing concepts just to give the conversation an exotic feel, the better.

3. Stereotyped races. "Another orc? Must be a bad guy, lets murder it" Thats just silly, its like implying that everyone living in Nazi germany was evil, just because they're German. Even lower order races like dogs have personalities, why shouldn't orcs?

4. Invincible, flawless heroes. Nuff said.

5. Deliberately avoiding fantasy standards. Whats wrong with dwarves and elves? Why does every author feel the need to avoid elves and dwarves, and instead put in tall, slender mining races called the Fel'gor, just to avoid being called cliched?

Overall I tend to hate stuff thats different just for the sake of being different. A lot of books get to the point that their main feature is being non-standard. Having elves and dwarves in a pseudo-european setting means that readers can easily visualise the setting, and can get on with following the story.

6. (Okay, i can't really argue with this one)

7. Covers with pictures of the characters on them. They never look anything like how I visualise the characters, so just end up seeming out of place.

As far as 8 goes, I love extended series of books. The more the better in my opinion, as long as there is enough story to go around :) I don't think anyone will argue with 9 though.

[Irrelevant]

This isn't something I particularly hate cause I actually love them. Dragons. I like seeing dragons in fantasy novels but I hate how hard it is to find a book series that just doesn't use them. And what's odd is that a book will go waaaaay out of its way not to have typical races like elves and dwarves and put in the Ishkari or Togerin or whatever. They won't have orcs, goblins, or ogres but they'll have some other big meanies whose main purpose is to be dangerous and scary. After going through all this trouble, what do they name the replacement for dragons? Oh we just call them dragons.

I've also noticed that when dragons aren't around, they still remain as a cultural symbol of some kind like in The Wheel of Time.

[Bengoshi-San]

2. Modern dialogue. I hate it when the characters of a fantasy novel talk just like modern people. Perhaps nothing bothers me more. I'll stop reading a fantasy book right away if someone uses modern sounding language. All those 'hard-boiled detective' fantasy stories are big offenders. If your characters are rogues and scum, make them sound like fantasy rogues and scum, not like the guys down at the local strip club. Pure laziness!

The one that ticks me off the most is this one.

I agree with all your other woes as well.

Frank Frazetta is a legend. I love his Death Dealer and Conan work from back in the days.

[wolfbane19]

The thing I hate is the overuse of prophecies in fantasy. Nearly every fantasy novel I've read has some cryptic prophecy proclaiming how the hero(s) will defeat the antagonist.

[Afrobro]

I really agree on every other point except the following:

You say you don't like
3.Aristocratic 'good' vampires, noble orcs with a warrior's code of honor, etc. Political correctness is more than enough in reality. Lets leave the imaginary villainous races as villains, ok? They are imaginary, after all. They won't be offended by negative stereotyping.

This is actually my favorite thing to see in most fantasy novels. I hate novels where every individual across an entire race or species has the same sort of rules to act by. It does not take every single member of a nation being evil for a nation to be seen as evil or greedy. As Zedar said I think most people would agree that Nazi germany was an evil nation and yet we know that it is not possible that there were not good men and loyal fathers fighting on the German side.

I think when writers show Aristocratic 'good' vampires, noble orcs with a warrior's code of honor, and other races deviating from what some might consider their races normal behavior it is not to be PC but to give thier setting a more realistic morality more in line with real life. I find that most novels I read where there are totally evil races have totally good antagonist and to me this sort of writing is both simple and overly comforting. (NOt saying anything is wrong with it just my own personal opinion.)

As a side note it does not have to ba a totally evil race I remember someone else pointing out that erikson frequently describes entire races/cultures with one small set of shared characteristics, IE every Gral spitting and fighting over horses. While this can be loooked at as more of a cultural effect of their whole horse nomad type inspiration in the end it still gets old to me at least.

Also it seems strange to me that you dont like

3.Aristocratic 'good' vampires, noble orcs with a warrior's code of honor, etc. Political correctness is more than enough in reality. Lets leave the imaginary villainous races as villains, ok? They are imaginary, after all. They won't be offended by negative stereotyping.

and also dont like
Use of stock fantasy beings like orcs, elves, dwarves, dragons, etc. Where's the imagination in trotting out the dwarves yet again? Lazy! To my horror, I once read an article where the author was claiming that writers should stick to these immediately recognizable beings, to make the readers comfortable.

So youre ok with stock racialized stereotypes but not with stock fantasy beings.?? Is it just the use of cliched fantasy races that bothers you maybe?


*As a side Note i really agree with point 2. I have to know does anyone else Lol when the guys in malazan use assualt crossbows as if they were M16's???

[algernoninc]

this kind of thing i remember i've done before in a thread about fantasy cliches - do a search for cliches with the option only for thread titles.

from the gripes already mentioned the ones that i find most difficult to reconcile are the ones about modern scat language and prophecies. Even these two, like the rest of the mentions can turn into a real asset in the hands of a good writer, so the problem usually is with the writer not with the cliches [again there's a very good article about this in the thread i mentioned before]

[Ironhill]

One thing that always bugs me is the extreme tolerance, political correctness and equality in modern fantasy. For example I don't know how many books I've read with women in the army or in the upper echelons of the political system. And books where soldiers/sailors/workmen don't swear, or talk about sex or go to cockfights. Most of the stories take place in a pseudo medieval society all the magic amulets and manticores in the world don't change the fact that people would act like people.

[EddardStark]

People, what you really need is George Martin's fantasy novel series, "A Song Of Ice And Fire"...
For me that's the best fantasy novel EVER to be written! :)

[ChrisW]

I hate it when authors just build up characters to make you think there important and then kill them off just for the shock value or just add bad language and stuff to make ya story seem gritty.

;)

Oh wait, it's the fans I hate who think that makes it more realistic and somehow different to other fantasy.:D

My bad.