[Ancalagon the Black]

The books are explosive in popularity. It started with children in the UK...then it caught on in the U.S., with parents buying it for children, and then for themselves. Soon afterwards it was featured in many newspapers, then on the cover of TIME magazine, today there is a movie, tomorrow Bush will be painting a lightning bolt on his forehead.

People who don't usually read anything outside of their TV guides are reading this book. EVERYONE is reading this book, it seems, except me.

I like fantasy a lot, my favorte genre, and I like to think that I've a little bit of experience on the subject, having read all of Jordan, Feist, Martin, Goodkind ( well, almost all of Goodkind, still waiting for Pillars to be available at my library), Kay, Asprin, Salvatore, Rosenberg, Tolkein, Lewis... but I cannot find it in my heart to pick up a Rowling book.

I've been told that they're great. They're fun for both kids and adults, and oh so cool! Fantasy isn't just for grubby little geeks anymore!

But No, I reply, to the over-eager read-all-the-books-50-times fans, I will NOT read your book. I refuse to read your book. It would be jumping on the Potter bandwagon. Like Troll Dolls, Pokemon, Pogs, and so many other things before it, Potter is just a fad, only this time it seems to have spread to adults. I refused to support them, and I refuse to support you. I abhor those who read something and call it great just because it's big, especially when they ecstatically proclaim Rowling to be the greatest Fantasy writer ever, but have not read any other fantasy in their lives.

These people are fantasy novices, but insist on speaking as if they are great experts on the subject. They eagerly point out that THEIR book has outsold LoTR, and is soon on it's way to eclipsing the Bible.

Bandwagon - jumping inevitably brings clones, and clones hurt the genre. Not only do new authors start writing cheap imitations with titles like "Perry Smotter", but old authors start changing their own novels around for greater popularity... hey look, it's the adventures of Teenage Pug, when he was just a kid at Starwarts, er Stardock academy!

It's not just Potter, but the entire bandwagon thing in general that I have a problem with. The same thing is happening with LotR now that the movie has come out, but at least I read that before any of the hype started.

So please, all Elitists, please let us preserve our high ground and let us look down our noses at these amateurs. To do any less would be a betrayal of the genre that we know and love.

Thoughts, questions, comments welcome.

BTW - anyone have a proper name for Fantasy geeks aside from Elitists? Wargamers use Grognards, programmers use h@xx0r 3l33t, fantasy readers should have their own term... I'm tempted to bust out some Tolkein Quenya here... how about Iaur-heru? Means "Old-Lords"...


[This message has been edited by Ancalagon the Black (edited January 02, 2002).]

[Qin]

Lots of people rail against certain things solely by virtue of their popularity. If Harry was some kind of hard to find, virtually unknown series of books, those people would be the first to read them. In short, something this popular can't be good, in their eyes.

It isn't the refusal to see or read Harry that is questionable...it's judging without reading or seeing it, which is rather silly. If you, personally, dislike any and all "fantasy" books and movies...that's fine, but that's also an altogether different thing, wouldn't you say?

I at least bother to read the crap I harp about. You want true crap? Try reading Evermeet: Island of the Elves by Elaine Cunningham. The prologue is well written, but then it goes to hell.

And as much as I enjoy Tolkien's world and writing, J.K. Rowlings's characters are infinitely more interesting to read about. Now stop being a prude and go pick up the Philosopher's Stone.

[Hobbit]

Hmmm.

I can understand your annoyance with the promotion of, for example Tolkien and Potter, I can even see why there are hints of smugness at the 'I read Tolkien before everyone else who's seen the film' type of comment, but I must say that until you have actually had a look at the Rowling's yourself, you should not prejudge something you have not at least tried.

Otherwise, how do you know it isn't you who's fallen into the trap of elitism?

Hobbit

[Rob B]

Hobbit, you must have channelled my thoughts with your powers high a top Hobbit towers!

[Hobbit]

I find the 'reception' better at this high altitude, FF! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Hobbit

[SusF]

HMPH. I don't WANT to be an elitist! I don't WANT to be smug about reading it first.

I read, I enjoy, and I share. What possible jollies would I get from lording it over someone who hasn't heard of "x" that I enjoyed? I get much more plesure in giving it to them to read, and then talking about it after they are done.

By the way, the Potter books are a heck of a lot better written than anything Goodkind ever squeezed out onto paper.

Susan

[Bond]

"...at least I read that [LotR] before any of the hype started."

As SusF implied this appears rather smug. Worse, for what seems to be a rather flimsy reason. Also the title of this thread seems a bit ironic. Aren't the fantasy elitists the most opposed to the bandwagon (even if at times unreasonably so) rather than part of it as your title implies?

I like Potter but not LotR. Personal preference. They are good at different things and I like the things Potter is good at more. I can see how someone else of a reasonable mind may see things differently though. No I do not like Pokemon and consider them the Cabbage Patch Kids or Teddy Ruxpin of today (that I even feel compelled to offer this explanation preemptively makes me wonder if I'm already inured to the argument I'm opeing myself up to).

Now that I have introduced myself may I ask who brought this oneupmanship up first? From my experience it is the Tolkien lovers that go rampaging about pilloring the popular fantasy or fiction of today (i.e. WoT, Harry Potter, Star Wars) using that most ridiculous of criticisms: they aren't Tolkienesque enough. Oh brother! What's the problem? Are the Tolkien legions insecure in the quality of their product that they have to keep disparaging other works? And why do they have to keep themselves from reading "the enemy"--lest they be "converted"? If there is anything that has caused this to become a peeve of mine it is the flack I got one time when I DARED to say Tolkien believe it or not could be found to be boring for some people with certain preferences. Not ALL people mind you just SOME people. You should have seen the tempest I whipped up! I'm a fan of many a book but I have not yet encountered a strain of book aficionados as virulent as the Tolkien kind.

"By the way, the Potter books are a heck of a lot better written than anything Goodkind ever squeezed out onto paper."

Amen.

In general I notice it is easier to to separate the good from the bad than to determine which among the good is better.

[This message has been edited by Bond (edited January 02, 2002).]

[Alucard]

Ancalagon, I don't think I could disagree with you more. For starters, never judge a book until you've read it. It immediately makes you sound foolish. You're afraid of people mimicking Rowling's story, but you haven't even read it and therefore don't know what you are implying.

But this whole elitist snobbery that comes about from people who love to read is something I've always loathed. Why should a book be shunned just because it's popular? Why is it a bad thing that some writers have turned hoards of kids (and adults!) away from their television sets? That's more than many other more "elite" authors have managed to do, and I'm more than happy that books, any books, are becoming so popular.

In the case of Harry Potter, they are some damn good books by any standards. They are some of the most universal novels in existence. Having written books myself, I understand exactly how difficult this is. It's not at all easy to write books that captivate both young and old, it's incredibly difficult. It's easier to write books that will please specific age groups or genre fans, you just tap into what interests the particular demographic. But Rowling wrote a book that is appealing to all types of people, even those who could care less about reading. Even some friends of mine, who hate fantasy and all it stands for, found themselves enjoying harry potter. My friend Andy, who won't even touch anything other than non-fiction, loved them, bought them all in hardback. His enthusiasm really shocked me.

And I will certainly never boycott a book or author. Even if I hate their work. Making a living with writing is not easy, and anyone who manages to do it, especially if they achieve a high level of successs, gets kudos from me.

I'm sure this is all falling on deaf ears, you seem pretty set in your ways about this particular series, but gotta speak my mind and all that jazz.

Phew. I need a drink... http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Ancalagon the Black]

Thank you all for your opinions/views.

As far as things go I am beginning to regret my strong words, and perhaps overblown views on the subject... I'm still not reading Potter (can't give in now that I've made up my mind not to read them... I'm inflexible even when I HAVE realized that I made a knee-jerk reaction) but perhaps I will be a bit more accomodating to future fads. I'm not exactly sure why, though, but I still enjoy being the first to read something, and I enjoy reading my obscure gems... perhaps it is the sign of my shallowness, who knows?

As for Goodkind... yes I know that Rowling has probably written better works than Goodkind. The reason I read Goodkind to begin with was because everyone else was reading it... that was the last time I decided to "jump on the bandwagon". I continue now because of a lack of new fantasy novels from my preferred authors, and a mobid curiosity if anything of importance will happen in the rest of the series...

[estranghero]

Well, that explains Ancalagon's strong reaction against the bandwagon for Rowling. He just finished reading Goodkind! http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

(Leaves laughing maniacally before the mobs of Goodkind fans come with torches and pitchforks...)