[JohnH]

I am not sure that the use of magic in this topic is quite valid, but to be honest I was not sure what other word to use.

In addressing a few other posts, a matter that has fluttered around in my sub-conscious finally woke up a bit more and demanded to be addressed.

Does magic and technology work together? By this I mean technology more advanced than our own. Basically do wizards and spaceships go well together? For me, not really. Not sure why. Maybe it was that the fantasy I grew up on was set in more primitive or 'older' cultures than my own. Perhaps it was the whole idea that magic is the means that eliminates the need for phones, cars, laser guns, death stars and androids.

A couple of books that just did not (or still don't) sit well combined these two elements.
Brooks in his Shannara series went a bit far with the whole apocalytic thing. Wurts in her Stormwarden series. And Lustbader with his current 'The Ring of the Five Dragons'.

Anyone else _not_ like these two elements? Anyone have a passion for them? If you don't care for these two mixed; has there been an effort you did like?

[jbcohen]

At least from what I have been told magic usually occurs in the absence of technology. It frequently is used to explain things that usually do not make sense or things that people don't understand. Others might say that magic represents things that occur outside the realm of reason. There is also no reason why the two can not go together - see Modesitt. There is no reason why there can not be a scientific study of magic.

[Lamanai]

Modesitt's an excellent example of a good mix of technology and magic. I think he does an incredible job of it. If you're up for a good book that nicely mixes the two, try "Fall of Angels". Excellent book.

Was it Asimov who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."?

[Elessar]

Yes, Asimov said that.
He also said, though, he'd define magic as anything you could not even do with the most advanced technology, the way we know technology today...


-- Elessar

[Rob B]

Actually it was Arthur C. Clarke that said that.

[Elessar]

Ack.. you are right. Asimov quotes it from Clarke.
Sorry, my mistake.


-- Elessar

[Mithfânion]

No, actually it was Asimov...


j/k http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

John, an interesting observation, the more so because I recognize the thought. I too find that technology and magic do not make for a pleasant mix, though this depends on the setting. Like you, I identify magic with old style Fantasy world, green graas, wonderful forests, Elvish beings, Tolkien, Feist, Eddings, Williams style.

However, if the setting were more Sci-Fi like (Coldfire trilogy) I think magic and technology can blend excellently. The Modesitt book sounds interesting btw.

I thin it's not so much the case of technology not coinciding with magic than it is technology doesn't go well with a traditional fantasy world.

[Lamanai]

Do we have any role-players here? Shadowrun is an excellent example of trying to import magic into a technology-based world. It takes place in the near future, with cybernetics and advanced computing. Then they import magic, and true wizards.

It's never worked for me. It's interesting occasionally, but the setting's never really been one I've liked. By and large, I agree with the sentiment. I don't tend to like technology imported into a fantasy world, nor do I like magic imported into a traditional sci-fi setting.

Modesitt's a counter-example to both statements, though. I highly recommend it. The Magic Engineer to see technology work in a fantasy world, and Fall of Angels for magic in a Spaceship (Sort of...). Both excellent books.

[Sammie]

I would say that magic defies the laws of physics, and that technology does not. For example: telekinesis can remain a part of sci-fi, rather than fantasy, as long as the energy for the motion COMES from somewhere (ie the subject gets fatigued).

That's how it works in MY head, anyway.

[JohnH]

I have Modesitt. I have never really any of the Recluse novels to be anything great.

Btw, I do not consider gunpowder or steam engines or such things to be technology.
Rather technology as I would define it are those scientific workings beyond which we have the present capability to realize but can imagine. Basically a reverse of the Clarke or Asimove quote above.

Space ships and magic don't mix as I have stated. But Paula Volsky and Martha Wells are two authors that incorporate a technology
of say Victorian times, that works well with magic. John Ford's recent Last hot Time was wonderful and in a quasi-modern time. Magic works in the 'real' world as well. Clive Barker's Weaveworld and Imagica are masterpieces. Tad Williams has written a soon to be classic in the Otherworld series.
David Wingrov's Chung Kuo is certainly more fantasy than scifi (ironically when he goes totally fantasy the series turns to uttter crap in the last book). Lisa Goldstein creates marvelous magic in the modern world.
Even Anne McCaffrey's Dragon books did well in merging a sense of fantasy in a scifi setting. But hyper drives and hocus pocus?
Nope.