[Ingram]

I have read a lot of fantasy books and really my favorite's are anything from David Gemmell, im half way through TTT and so far it seems to be the standerd Fantasy noval, nothing new or anything, and the way Tolkin write's it a bit of a put of, as a matter of fact he has me talking like a poet or Gandalf for that matter, I almost want to take up poetry. anyway other than it been the first of it's kind is it really that good. i mean just imagine your favorite book made into a successful movie, there is lot better to be had IMHO.

If this get's locked, deleted, or moved im going to go insane

[This message has been edited by mordread (edited February 01, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by mordread (edited February 01, 2002).]

[Rob B]

CLOSING TOPIC!!!

J/K

Yes I think LOTR is that great. Some will disagree, but not only is it a phenominal piece of literature, it is also one of the MOST IMPORATANT books ever written.

[Ingram]

boy i was going to burst when i saw that luckily you were only joking hehe

anyway the only importance's i see in LOTR is it been the first of it's kind nothing more or less. Although yes i agree it is great writing as i said before i almost want to be become a poet or something...

[Lamanai]

This depends on how you define "great". It's definitely, as FF said, a very important piece of literature. It's because of those books that fantasy really came into being. It probably would have happened eventually anyway, but I definitely believe that Tolkein's a large reason Fantasy exists as it does today. For that it deserves a certain amount of respect.

As far as a great piece of literature...? I have to agree with you somewhat. The story he tells is fascinating, and I think it's one that deserves to be told, but I find his writing very dry.

So here's how I'd answer your question. I don't consider Tolkein to be a great writer. But I do consider him to be a pioneer with a great imagination. I'd say yes, it is a great series, even if I don't think it's particularly well written.

[Ingram]

I think it wasnt written to well because he wont it during the war, have you seen the unfinished tales series it really shows what a world he created.

[Elessar]

In some ways (it depends on the way you look at it), I think Tolkien has done something no one ever did before, nor was it done again ever after.

The Lord of the Rings takes place in a world Tolkien had been creating and working on for all his life. If you read LotR, you will find a lot of references which you will not understand. References to the Last Alliance between Elves and Men, for instance; references to Beren and Luthíen, with Luthíen being an elf, and Beren being mortal. And of the love of Thingol and Melian there came into the world the fairest of the Children of Ilúvatar that was or shall ever be.

You will not understand who Gandalf is- he is far more powerful then it seems, one may discover that; but who or WHAT is he?
Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, says Gandalf in LotR.
The Silm says: But of Olórin that tale does not speak; for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts. In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.
(This is also related to Gandalf's ring, of course...).

Morgoth is also mentioned in LotR, yet little is told of his deeds within it. Yet, you will learn that Sauron was but a servant of Morgoth, the Dark Lord.


What it all comes down to (I could go on, and on, ... and on) is the incredible depth of this book. The depth comes because it is built upon stories that were written long before it, and take place literally thousands of years before LotR. As to my knowledge, no other author has done this before Tolkien or ever after. Sure, other works have depth; but their depth usually lies within themselves, and it grows with them; they do not plan a whole world to build a story upon!
But Tolkien did not write for a living, but as far as I understand it, mostly for his pleasure.

The poems are another facette: even ("professional") critis or LotR admit that some of his poems (and some of those within LotR) are indeed genuine. I happen to agree ;-)

'I wonder', said Frodo. 'But I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale. Take any one that you're fond of. You may know, or guess, what kind of a tale it is, happy-ending or sad-ending, but the people in it don't know. And you don't want them to.'
'No, sir, of course not. Beren now, he never thought he was going to get that Silmaril from the Iron Crown in Thangorodrim, and yet he did, and that was a worse place and a blacker danger than ours. But that's a long tale, of course, and goes on past the happiness and into grief and beyond it - and the Silmaril went on and came to Eärendil. And why, sir, I never thought of that before! We've got - you've got some of the light of it in that star-glass that the Lady gave you! Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?'
'No, they never end as tales', said Frodo. 'But the people in them come, and go when their part's ended. Our part will end later - or sooner.'
'And then we can have some rest and some sleep', said Sam.


Isn't it simply amazing?


-- Elessar


[This message has been edited by Elessar (edited February 01, 2002).]

[astrianna]

I agree that Tolkien's world was amazing. It had the kind of depth that only a truly complex mind could create, but I have so much difficulty reading his writing... I get the feeling that if I were to sit down with him and talk about Middle Earth, I would be spellbound, but reading about it leaves me cold.
Maybe my mind just hasn't developed to the point that I can get into it properly. Someday I hope I can really get into the world, but right now, when I read it I find it simply too technical, almost. That's not quite the right word, but it's the closest I can come up with right now.

[Cadfael]

Elessar... was Gandalf not also one of the Miar(sp?)... a lesser god.

Now to answer the question..."is Lord of the Rings really that great?"

Yes... IMO. http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

I am not really concerned if Tolkien was or was not the originator of modern fantasy... I just know that every single peice of work I heave read by him... I have loved, this includes other work, not just LoTR... but Leaf By Niggle, Farmer Giles of Ham, etc.

I also agree, it is when you delve into the history of Middle-Earth... it is then you find out what a masterpeice you have.

[This message has been edited by dennizm (edited February 01, 2002).]

[Loaba]

Elessar, you have said exactly what I could never put into words. Tolkien's world is so genuine and authentic because it is so complete. It has a depth that no other Author I've ever read has been able to convey.

Certianly Tolkien could be considered a dry read, but he's not gratuitous either. I've heard several people knock him for percieved inadequate character development. I honestly don't think they've ever read the Lord of The Rings. Sam, Frodo, Aragorn, Gandalf, all these characters have unique histories. Sam, my personal favourite, literaly changes before our eyes!

I'll get off mt soap box now.

Loaba

[Mithfânion]

Yes, it is that good.

Why?

Because it's an incredibly detailed world with an enormously elaborate and wonderfully interesting history.

Secondly, the book contains many themes. Love, death, immortality, mercy, you name it. Maybe some don't appreciate it, others do.

Thirdly, the man has great style. He's just such a great writer.

Fourthly, Gandalf is fantastic IMO. Must be my favorite fiction character along with Merlin and Fitz Chivalry.

Fifthly, he raised the Elves from ridiculously tiny pixies to full grown humanoid beings that were "above" humans. No one has come so close to portraying a race that is so much like us, but one step higher on the evolutionary scale. I was in awe. Hency my user name.

"The Elves Sir, it's the Elves"

Indeed http://www.sffworld.com/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Mithfânion (edited February 01, 2002).]